Please don't go through with the WAR changes SE

[DamianTenbe]

Did anyone even complained about war? What's the reason for these changes? D:

[Lumadurin]

Did anyone even complained about war? What's the reason for these changes? D:

People complained that that WAR didn't do enough damage for how strict its rotation was in comparison to PLD (WAR's damage is heavily weighted towards its burst windows, so delaying them/failing to execute them lead to large losses in damage compared to the other tanks).
So instead of giving it a simple potency bump like most people expected (or heck just reducing PLD's damage and leaving WAR as is - the gap would widen either way), they've made it's damage output smoother at the cost of making it far less interesting as a job.
They also reduced it's synergy with party buffs (now it's actually detrimental to do your burst window while crit/direct-hit-affecting party buffs like Chain Stratagem or Battle Litany are up because you don't benefit from them).

[AdamZ]

they've made it's damage output smoother at the cost of making it far less interesting as a job.

How is it even smoother? we have the same damage spike even 90 seconds now, while doing nothing in between. Compared to two big spikes every 60 and 120 seconds, with one much large. Over 200 seconds that's 60 seconds of burst. Now in that same window you are looking at 20 seconds of burst. We are even more spikey, and likely this all plays as a total dps down.

[Lumadurin]

How is it even smoother? we have the same damage spike even 90 seconds now, while doing nothing in between. Compared to two big spikes every 60 and 120 seconds, with one much large. Over 200 seconds that's 60 seconds of burst. Now in that same window you are looking at 20 seconds of burst. We are even more spikey, and likely this all plays as a total dps down.

Our burst window is now 10 seconds (4-5 gcd's) of guaranteed direct crits every 90 seconds (that's EIGHTY SECONDS of downtime where you freestyle your beast gauge). As well as potency bumps for regular GCD moves (30 potency buff for Eye/Path combo,, 40 for Block).
Before it was a 20 second window of 1.30x damage (with the added possibility of direct hits/crits depending on melds and party buffs) every 60 seconds (so 40 seconds downtime - that means our downtime between burst windows has DOUBLED).

Before change: ~16gcds between windows
After change: ~32 gcds between windows

Our burst windows are now shorter, less frequent, and have less variance in their damage, meaning more of our damage will now come from regular GCDs.

[Chrono_Rising]

Snip

Just to add in, all that gauge that use to be spent during berserk is now open season for use, and this free infuriate from the Berserk windows, meaning the traited version might actually have some real value. Too early to tell if this is a good thing, bad thing, or just a thing at this point.

[TouchandFeel]

Just to add in, all that gauge that use to be spent during berserk is now open season for use, and this free infuriate from the Berserk windows, meaning the traited version might actually have some real value. Too early to tell if this is a good thing, bad thing, or just a thing at this point.

This is a very good point that I feel is being overlooked. As I've stated in other threads, I really don't feel the WAR changes are going to end up being a nerf (except arguably to fun-factor) and will likely be more of a side-grade.

The more I look at the changes, the more it seems that the devs are trying to push WAR in the direction of using/being in Defiance more. If you look at the fact that the IR and Unchained timers are now decoupled and that IR is also now available in Defiance, it seems that in order to maximize efficiency you may have to pop over to Defiance more often.

[Aana]

This is a very good point that I feel is being overlooked. As I've stated in other threads, I really don't feel the WAR changes are going to end up being a nerf (except arguably to fun-factor) and will likely be more of a side-grade.

The more I look at the changes, the more it seems that the devs are trying to push WAR in the direction of using/being in Defiance more. If you look at the fact that the IR and Unchained timers are now decoupled and that IR is also now available in Defiance, it seems that in order to maximize efficiency you may have to pop over to Defiance more often.

Except there's still no advantage to being in defiance. Sure. Hop into defiance. Pop unchained. Congrats youre still
*doing 5% less damage than if you did nothing
*using IR in defiance is still a nono. Why do 5 IBs when you could do 5FCs? Damage loss
*You loose deliverance crit rate still.

Non of that is worth 1 50% stronger upheaval (150-160 potency) gain.

Defiance will not be used to GAIN dps.

What this does mean is that defiance LOOSES LESS dps than it currently does and opens some interesting defensive options. (5x DH IBs= 15sec of 20% damage down and 1500 potency of direct hit/Crit self cure). You are not punished as hard for using tank stance occasionally (feel free to loose 5% damage and crit rate for 20 sec whiel you unchained for safety. IR will be waiting for you after). But it will never be a gain in damage.

Optimal DPS play will still never touch defiance. But progression tanking, casual tanking, etc where defiance is used will hurt less than it currently does.

[Tegernako]

Did anyone even complained about war? What's the reason for these changes? D:

This forum does nothing but complain about WAR sometimes lol And these changes are interesting because it means SE is willing to do almost expansion levels of overhauls to a job which bodes well for DRK in the future.

Again, no one is saying the POWER is bad, or that war just got weak.

*They just took the top end perfectly played raid war down a little peg.
*Buffed up the performance of the avg joe war
*REALLY buffed casual wars that use a lot of tank stance.

The average performance of War as a class just went up quite a bit. War by that measure just became very powerful. Tank stance is less punishing. Resource management just got faceroll easy. Defensive play in tank stance just got a really huge buff.

The 'issue' people are complaining about is they way war plays just got gutted. Not its performance. Imagine Holy spirit cost zero MP under Req window. Sure its a buff, but it removes any gameplay around managing MP and rewarding you for managing it properly. The same complaint Drks had in SB release when it used to be a high(er) skill, higher reward class. If you played better you performed better.

These changes knock down our ability to be rewarded for smarter play by dumbing down the job, and some of use enjoyed that aspect of the class. It felt REALLY good when I did a raid and tweaked out all my timings to fit in every zerk and IR window possible and executed them all with maxiumum beast gauge to optimize them. I was rewarded for that fine tuned play with very high damage.

War will still do fine damage and be even safer for progression and easier to pick up for newer players. But, just like the people that mastered HW drk, the old skilled wars out there no longer have that skill expression and we sad. That's why were not all hyped about some hyper crit FCs for free. We got a sidegrade in performance and a nerf to fun. That's all.

Sounds about right.

I suspect we will at worst break even, or some negligible amount in either direction.

I thought as much as well when I read it the first time. The question is, is it fun? I like stance dancing but while it's true that I didn't like having to have this incredible serious of 8 different rotations at the same time I didn't want the job to become 123 easy either. Really a case of wait to see. Perhaps the constant barrage of stance switches and skills will make up for it.

At the very least, finally warrior could have a reason to switch stances a bit more with the downtime between unchained and IR (being uncoupled)

Personally I just wanted IR uncoupled. Leaning more towards not liking the changes at all...but *sighs* we will see.