Why the hate with endgame fights?

[Jerichai]

Snip.

Not sure where I referred to the people you mentioned...but okay...

Go to the first page. The third response is basically "People who don't want to/haven't done end game content are lazy and entitled" and it has been up-voted 25 times and I've seen no one from end game content step in and say "Hey you're kind of making a blanket statement there buddy". And that's not the only response like that in this thread...and it's FAR from the first time these kinds of assumptions about the more casual crowd have been made.

My comment has nothing to do with critiquing the content itself, I have zero issue with the existence of harder content and in fact happier when MMOs provide a nice sampling across challenge levels. My point is I saw a lot of folks condemn people for stating that they avoid endgame due to the perception of toxicity in that community...while not acknowledging that there are a lot of people in this thread acting in a way some might deem as toxic.

[MoroMurasaki]

snip

It is virtually impossible to not act in a way some might deem toxic though. For some people the word 'parse' is equivalent to harassment of some kind. I agree calling all non-raiders lazy is inappropriate but you're also pulling from page 1 of a 30+ page thread.

Also based on the number of like I asume you're talking about this...

Judging from all the nerf posts that pop all the time, -clears throat-
"Because I want to clear everything with minimal effort and time investment! Paying for a sub means all content shouldn't be just available to me, it should be given to me!"

.. which is very clearly aimed in a humorous direction. I'm going to be honest I went to go see who made this toxic post you're talking about to yell at them if I had them on discord and found this. This isn't toxic it's funny. And it has 26 likes now.

[Jerichai]

Snip.

I mean...there's more examples like 2 posts under that highly upvoted that blanket non-raiders in a negative light with no basis of fact supporting them. And while you deem it a joke, can you be certain everyone else will perceive it as such.

But by all means, you all can go on being mystified by and angry at the reality that some folks consider the end game community as toxic.

[MoroMurasaki]

I mean...there's more examples like 2 posts under that highly upvoted that blanket non-raiders in a negative light with no basis of fact supporting them. And while you deem it a joke, can you be certain everyone else will perceive it as such.

But by all means, you all can go on being mystified by and angry at the reality that some folks consider the end game community as toxic.

I'm not mystified by it or angry about it at all because I've known for years that people with no common sense existed. Takes the mystery right out

[Jerichai]

I'm not mystified by it or angry about it at all because I've known for years that people with no common sense existed. Takes the mystery right out

If you think the fact that some people who decide they don't want to interact with those who appear to be okay with spreading falsehoods about them are lacking lacking common sense...I'm not sure what to tell you.

The end game community on the one hand seems to get more people into the higher levels of content...by treating reluctant onlookers with basic respect seems to be a stretch they're not willing to take.

[MoroMurasaki]

If you think the fact that some people who decide they don't want to interact with those who appear to be okay with spreading falsehoods about them are lacking lacking common sense...I'm not sure what to tell you.

The end game community on the one hand seems to get more people into the higher levels of content...by treating reluctant onlookers with basic respect seems to be a stretch they're not willing to take.

You say these things, please back them up. Give me examples. I wouod be more than happy to at least distance myself from anyone who has said anything along the lines of "all players who haven't completed Savage are lazy/stupid/etc." which is the claim you have made but you haven't quoted a single post.

Put your money where your mouth is.

[Jerichai]

I pointed out multiple on the first page...we literally just talked about this as you dismissed it 'as a joke'.

Judging from all the nerf posts that pop all the time, -clears throat-
"Because I want to clear everything with minimal effort and time investment! Paying for a sub means all content shouldn't be just available to me, it should be given to me!"

To be frank? People are entitled and lazy. There's really not much else to it. They don't want to do the work but they want what ever doing the work would earn them.

Some people don't have the capacity or the will to tackle endgame content. yet they still feel they are owed it and attempt to get carried. if they can't they complain.

[Dualgunner]

If you think the fact that some people who decide they don't want to interact with those who appear to be okay with spreading falsehoods about them are lacking lacking common sense...I'm not sure what to tell you.

At this point, both casuals and raiders have had lies and slander made about them by the other side. Outliers of one end call the others lazy and unwilling to work; outliers on the other end call their opponents "toxic" and "unwilling to treat onlookers with basic respect." Let's dispense with both here and now: those are outliers on both ends.

[MoroMurasaki]

At this point, both casuals and raiders have had lies and slander made about them by the other side. Outliers of one end call the others lazy and unwilling to work; outliers on the other end call their opponents "toxic" and "unwilling to treat onlookers with basic respect." Let's dispense with both here and now: those are outliers on both ends.

So much this sentiment. Bads are bad no matter how competent they are. Most people are not bad people though. Neither the entire casual or raiding community is a cesspool, rather both have bad eggs.

[Oscura]

But by all means, you all can go on being mystified by and angry at the reality that some folks consider the end game community as toxic.

The mystifying thing is that the most vocal of people who refuse to do end game content because of "toxicity," are usually far more toxic than any sort of raider posting, myself included.

The worst I've seen the most vocal posters "for" raiding do is call people lazy or entitled. Myself I've called people arrogant or ignorant.

Meanwhile, I've seen "toxic jerks," "scrubs," "assholes," "I will report anyone I so much as suspect using a parser," "you're garbage at this game if you need a parser," "you're not good at this game you just think you are," "savage isn't an achievement," etc.

I could actually go back and quote most of these posts, hell, some of them are in this thread. I am also too lazy though, because I don't care that much. In fact, more often than not, despite all the insults we've received, we don't spend all our time whining how toxic the casual community is towards raiders because of their preconceived notion we are. This is because we're able to objectively acknowledge that only a small group of casual players are nasty towards raiders.

Let's just stop with this "but their FEELINGS," rhetoric. If someone is turned away from raiding because of someone on the forums implying they're lazy or entitled, then they have bigger problems. Unless a post is aimed at you specifically you should just never take it personally. It's not the responsibility of another person to watch out for your insecurities. Especially if they don't know you.

Hey look....you respond to my recommendation of not making baseless assumptions about people...by making baseless assumptions about me.

They said, "if." It provides benefit of the doubt. It is not a baseless assumption. Stop reaching.