Red Mage could use some help.

[Waemliht]

lol, it was a mistake to have mentioned vercure or potd, it was just an afterthought. Vercure's really not worth casting if you're not prepping in downtime, avoid like plague. But if you really want these dmg buffs, I can't see any way but making them 1 rez a minute like everyone else.
This isn't a smn thread but you can't deny that smn's > blm rn.

[Dualgunner]

lol, it was a mistake to have mentioned vercure or potd, it was just an afterthought. Vercure's really not worth casting if you're not prepping in downtime, avoid like plague. But if you really want these dmg buffs, I can't see any way but making them 1 rez a minute like everyone else.
This isn't a smn thread but you can't deny that smn's > blm rn.

I'm with you on verraise. It needs a nerf also because it creates a divide between for-prog and post-prog, where anybody who wants to play RDM is only there for-prog, and if they want to stay efficient with the group they swap to SMN after prog.

[Zytoryu]

Because there are still 5 classes better than it. Bard, Ninja, Dragoon, Machinist and Monk.

And SMN doesn't do Raises better. While it does everything else better and does outclass the other casters - its not because its so strong - its because RDM and BLM are weak by comparison.

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17#dataset=90 Are you sure Summoner is outclassed by Monk? Ninja, Bard, Dragoon, and Machinist I can see because of their strong raid presence. but Monk does less DPS than Summoner and brings less. and yes I agree that Casters are currently heavily under powered thanks to Disembowel. but that doesn't mean Summoner gets a free pass to be as over tuned as it is, atleast not without simply buffing RDM and BLM to be on par if not above SMN

[Sunako]

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17#dataset=90 Are you sure Summoner is outclassed by Monk? Ninja, Bard, Dragoon, and Machinist I can see because of their strong raid presence. but Monk does less DPS than Summoner and brings less. and yes I agree that Casters are currently heavily under powered thanks to Disembowel. but that doesn't mean Summoner gets a free pass to be as over tuned as it is, atleast not without simply buffing RDM and BLM to be on par if not above SMN

If you look fastest speed kills in o1s there is monk into it.

https://www.fflogs.com/rankings/17#boss=42

[HaroldSaxon]

Except there is the fact that Bard which has way more utility does more damage as does machinist...
So yes Red Mage needs some minor tweaks and slight buff.
Using verraise as an arguement for a reason to not buff Red Mage does not work

Bard doesn't do "way more damage". It does have more Raid DPS utility. Machinist does have both. But RedMage's utility of Verraise + Duelcast is absolutely fantastic for progression, and I feel that buffing Red Mage while it has that unique and powerful utility will just create another Ninja situation.

Except there is the fact that Bard which has way more utility does more damage as does machinist...
So yes Red Mage needs some minor tweaks and slight buff.
Using verraise as an arguement for a reason to not buff Red Mage does not work

Bard doesn't do "way more damage". It does have more Raid DPS utility. Machinist does have both. But RedMage's utility of Verraise + Duelcast is absolutely fantastic for progression, and I feel that buffing Red Mage while it has that unique and powerful utility will just create another Ninja situation.

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17#dataset=90 Are you sure Summoner is outclassed by Monk? Ninja, Bard, Dragoon, and Machinist I can see because of their strong raid presence. but Monk does less DPS than Summoner and brings less. and yes I agree that Casters are currently heavily under powered thanks to Disembowel. but that doesn't mean Summoner gets a free pass to be as over tuned as it is, atleast not without simply buffing RDM and BLM to be on par if not above SMN

Check speedruns. In some fights, it is. If anything, i'd say it kind of proves how well patch 4.1 did for SMN's - it was some good work from SE. Monks are also getting some heavy buffs in 4.2 which will likely tip them over the edge.

The main thing that makes Monks viable is the killtimer. SMN isn't overtuned because there are at least 4 classes that are better than it. Its RDM and BLM that should get buffed to be on par with SMN (when looking at their overall kit, not just looking at raw dps numbers).

Plus, FFlogs overestimates SMN's Dot's so isn't entirely accurate.

[Zytoryu]

Check speedruns. In some fights, it is. If anything, i'd say it kind of proves how well patch 4.1 did for SMN's - it was some good work from SE. Monks are also getting some heavy buffs in 4.2 which will likely tip them over the edge.

The main thing that makes Monks viable is the killtimer. SMN isn't overtuned because there are at least 4 classes that are better than it. Its RDM and BLM that should get buffed to be on par with SMN (when looking at their overall kit, not just looking at raw dps numbers)..

Fair points, but I still feel RedMage should have their personal DPS buffed. to at least be close to Summoner instead of far below them. It would at least make them more interchangeable after progression instead of just always going SMN after the first week or 2 of progression. Then you have one thats safer for progression and you have one thats better for speed kills but both can still be quite viable in either situation.

[HaroldSaxon]

Fair points, but I still feel RedMage should have their personal DPS buffed. to at least be close to Summoner instead of far below them. It would at least make them more interchangeable after progression instead of just always going SMN after the first week or 2 of progression. Then you have one thats safer for progression and you have one thats better for speed kills but both can still be quite viable in either situation.

As a design point, I think it would be a little boring to have RedMage have a personal DPS boost. Sure it could work to balance it, but I feel it would be more unique if it had more utility - it would certainly be interesting if that dps utility wasn't centered around burst too.

[Maero]

@Harold if you read what i posted i said Bard has way more utility, i did not say way more damage.. Just the way i worded it i guess
But the issue is jobs that have more utility and do more damage then those with less or no utility.
In the case of blm which does not have utility and smn has a good amount.
I am not saying Red Mage needs a huge buff as it is not horrid buuuut it should be doing at least on par damage with Bard and Machinist or slightly more

[Shiroe]

embolden needs to buff both physical and magical damage on the target

even if blm dont have real burst windows, just having that "enhanced" embolden, buffing healers burst or other casters in the comp, would be nice and make rdm a tick more valid, .. even if rdm is already valid like hell in prog

[Maero]

I think many would agree with that.
Atm embolden is "ok" but changes like you and others have mentioned would be beneficial