Red Mage could use some help.

[HaroldSaxon]

How does SMN not need to be Nerfed? they do literally everything RDM does but better. Much More DPS, more Raid DPS, More Mobility, Raises. A good SMN makes RDM completely mute. the only thing a RDM has over a SMN is being able to raise more than once a minute. but If your in a raid where you have more than 3 deaths a minute its probably to be a wipe anyways. the multi raises only comes in early early progression, soon after your group understands the Mechanics SMN is far far better.

Because there are still 5 classes better than it. Bard, Ninja, Dragoon, Machinist and Monk.

And SMN doesn't do Raises better. While it does everything else better and does outclass the other casters - its not because its so strong - its because RDM and BLM are weak by comparison.

[Zytoryu]

Because there are still 5 classes better than it. Bard, Ninja, Dragoon, Machinist and Monk.

And SMN doesn't do Raises better. While it does everything else better and does outclass the other casters - its not because its so strong - its because RDM and BLM are weak by comparison.

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17#dataset=90 Are you sure Summoner is outclassed by Monk? Ninja, Bard, Dragoon, and Machinist I can see because of their strong raid presence. but Monk does less DPS than Summoner and brings less. and yes I agree that Casters are currently heavily under powered thanks to Disembowel. but that doesn't mean Summoner gets a free pass to be as over tuned as it is, atleast not without simply buffing RDM and BLM to be on par if not above SMN

[Sunako]

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17#dataset=90 Are you sure Summoner is outclassed by Monk? Ninja, Bard, Dragoon, and Machinist I can see because of their strong raid presence. but Monk does less DPS than Summoner and brings less. and yes I agree that Casters are currently heavily under powered thanks to Disembowel. but that doesn't mean Summoner gets a free pass to be as over tuned as it is, atleast not without simply buffing RDM and BLM to be on par if not above SMN

If you look fastest speed kills in o1s there is monk into it.

https://www.fflogs.com/rankings/17#boss=42

[HaroldSaxon]

Except there is the fact that Bard which has way more utility does more damage as does machinist...
So yes Red Mage needs some minor tweaks and slight buff.
Using verraise as an arguement for a reason to not buff Red Mage does not work

Bard doesn't do "way more damage". It does have more Raid DPS utility. Machinist does have both. But RedMage's utility of Verraise + Duelcast is absolutely fantastic for progression, and I feel that buffing Red Mage while it has that unique and powerful utility will just create another Ninja situation.

Except there is the fact that Bard which has way more utility does more damage as does machinist...
So yes Red Mage needs some minor tweaks and slight buff.
Using verraise as an arguement for a reason to not buff Red Mage does not work

Bard doesn't do "way more damage". It does have more Raid DPS utility. Machinist does have both. But RedMage's utility of Verraise + Duelcast is absolutely fantastic for progression, and I feel that buffing Red Mage while it has that unique and powerful utility will just create another Ninja situation.

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17#dataset=90 Are you sure Summoner is outclassed by Monk? Ninja, Bard, Dragoon, and Machinist I can see because of their strong raid presence. but Monk does less DPS than Summoner and brings less. and yes I agree that Casters are currently heavily under powered thanks to Disembowel. but that doesn't mean Summoner gets a free pass to be as over tuned as it is, atleast not without simply buffing RDM and BLM to be on par if not above SMN

Check speedruns. In some fights, it is. If anything, i'd say it kind of proves how well patch 4.1 did for SMN's - it was some good work from SE. Monks are also getting some heavy buffs in 4.2 which will likely tip them over the edge.

The main thing that makes Monks viable is the killtimer. SMN isn't overtuned because there are at least 4 classes that are better than it. Its RDM and BLM that should get buffed to be on par with SMN (when looking at their overall kit, not just looking at raw dps numbers).

Plus, FFlogs overestimates SMN's Dot's so isn't entirely accurate.

[Zytoryu]

Check speedruns. In some fights, it is. If anything, i'd say it kind of proves how well patch 4.1 did for SMN's - it was some good work from SE. Monks are also getting some heavy buffs in 4.2 which will likely tip them over the edge.

The main thing that makes Monks viable is the killtimer. SMN isn't overtuned because there are at least 4 classes that are better than it. Its RDM and BLM that should get buffed to be on par with SMN (when looking at their overall kit, not just looking at raw dps numbers)..

Fair points, but I still feel RedMage should have their personal DPS buffed. to at least be close to Summoner instead of far below them. It would at least make them more interchangeable after progression instead of just always going SMN after the first week or 2 of progression. Then you have one thats safer for progression and you have one thats better for speed kills but both can still be quite viable in either situation.

[HaroldSaxon]

Fair points, but I still feel RedMage should have their personal DPS buffed. to at least be close to Summoner instead of far below them. It would at least make them more interchangeable after progression instead of just always going SMN after the first week or 2 of progression. Then you have one thats safer for progression and you have one thats better for speed kills but both can still be quite viable in either situation.

As a design point, I think it would be a little boring to have RedMage have a personal DPS boost. Sure it could work to balance it, but I feel it would be more unique if it had more utility - it would certainly be interesting if that dps utility wasn't centered around burst too.