Red Mage could use some help.

[Neela]

the difference between rdm and blm/sam complains is... blm/sam were official intended to be the strongest dps jobs what they clearly aren't atm, so I don't blame those player for their critic – rdm on the other hand was always be intended to be a support dps, who's clearly weaker than his caster company lore & concept wise - even way before the cls was released. so im really curious why rdm player are so super surprised to find themselves on the bottom caster spot... if there wouldn't be a noticeable cap between rdm and the other caster... what would the counterpart advantages of smn/blm in solo play like potd, progression, fates and everything else look like, if not related to raids/farm?

[Zytoryu]

rdm on the other hand was always be intended to be a support dps, who's clearly weaker than his caster company lore & concept wise - even way before the cls was released. so im really curious why rdm player are so super surprised to find themselves on the bottom caster spot

I think everyone expected RDM to be the lower DPS caster. But that isnt the issue here. the issue is the job has one ability that makes it OK for progression. its "support" is straight up garbage, along side its DPS with less DPS, Utility, and mobility than BRD, MCH and SMN, I don't mind the job having great utility at the cost of DPS, but the utility it does bring, doesn't make up for its awful DPS output. SMN, its primary competition for that caster slot, already brings a raise, better raid DPS, much better AoE and single target DPS, and is also much more flexible in fights thanks to Ruin2. I'm not demanding SE buff them up to top DPS, but atleast make their DPS comparable to SMN.

[Neela]

using r2 or moving at all is still always a dps loss as well for us - and about single target dmg we have to see how this "much better" will turn out with the latest adjustment on r3&ww... honestly I don't think it will be that far ahead from now on. ^^'

[Lina_Slayer]

The problem is that we are again comparing trash to trash (caster to caster) we should be compared to actually good classes like BRD (low dps high utility just like RDM) and then you see why RDM is in a bad shape.

BLM is awful and SMN might be bad after the nerfs (still probably strongest caster tho), so really there is no use at trying to compare RDM to them, because as long as the devs keep balancing casters against themselves all the casters will be bad, while the physical meta reigns supreme.

[Neela]

well comparing anything with the meta will seem like in a bad spot.... but yeah you are right dds in general have to be balanced instead just in their role (caster/melee/range) : /

[HaroldSaxon]

its really sad that people took numbers over their own interests - its just natural that you get salty... so fast ^^'

Its really sad that people accuse others of being salty because they don't conform to their own warped interests.

[Jandor]

Impact: 60s 5% magic vulnerability.
Corps-a-corps: 60s 5% piercing vulnerability.
Embolden: Effects all damage, not just physical.

dps boost plus more support. ez pz

[HaroldSaxon]

Impact: 60s 5% magic vulnerability.
Corps-a-corps: 60s 5% piercing vulnerability.
Embolden: Effects all damage, not just physical.

dps boost plus more support. ez pz

The problem with magic vulnerability (and not just talking about it being on impact which is a bad idea) is that only 3 members of the party primarily have their damage as magic - and even then, a decent chunk of redmages damage isn't magical.

Giving Piercing vulnerability would just add to the issues that Ranged Comps have already.

I agree with the Embolden change and the general direction of the change, but I feel that it would be better to increase the APM of the class in order to gain more utility

[Jandor]

The problem with magic vulnerability (and not just talking about it being on impact which is a bad idea) is that only 3 members of the party primarily have their damage as magic - and even then, a decent chunk of redmages damage isn't magical.

Giving Piercing vulnerability would just add to the issues that Ranged Comps have already.

I agree with the Embolden change and the general direction of the change, but I feel that it would be better to increase the APM of the class in order to gain more utility

Healers would benefit from 5% magic vuln too, and maybe tanks (not sure on how big a chunk of PLD/DRK damage is magic.)

RDM with piercing debuff would just let you swap DRG out for it if you wanted to run a caster comp without nerfing your BRD/MCH, it wouldn't stack with Dragoons debuff and therefore wouldn't make physical ranged anymore wanted than they already are.

I agree that RDM should be altered a bit more to raise the skill ceiling, but realistically any sort of redesign that in-depth isn't going to happen until 5.0. Was just trying to think of some changes that could be done in 5 minutes () that could shake things up for RDM and the meta raid comp.

[HaroldSaxon]

Healers would benefit from 5% magic vuln too, and maybe tanks (not sure on how big a chunk of PLD/DRK damage is magic.)

RDM with piercing debuff would just let you swap DRG out for it if you wanted to run a caster comp without nerfing your BRD/MCH, it wouldn't stack with Dragoons debuff and therefore wouldn't make physical ranged anymore wanted than they already are.

I agree that RDM should be altered a bit more to raise the skill ceiling, but realistically any sort of redesign that in-depth isn't going to happen until 5.0. Was just trying to think of some changes that could be done in 5 minutes () that could shake things up for RDM and the meta raid comp.

Healers don't always DPS, especially in harder content - their DPS output is always the lowest of the group. Tanks are primarily physical DPS. Sure, there's the odd skill here and there from other classes that does magical, but it still doesn't immediately mean that magic vuln is good - just look at SMN and contagion.

Even if RDM had the piercing debuff, you'll still want to bring a DRG for speedkills - because it provides more utility and more raw DPS. Furthermore, you will still want to take MNK/NIN/BRD or even MCH instead of the MNK depending on the fight. The piercing debuff problem is has a few issues - one, only DRG has it (which can be solved). Two, there's no choice to buff other damage types (e.g. magical) so you can't adjust based on composition and three, the damage types are not balanced between the group equally.