Why the hate with endgame fights?

[RiyahArp]

Again, you are taking things to the extreme.

Kaiva, what do you think "raising the difficulty curve" means? If you think royal menagerie is easy, the only things harder above it are o1s and susano/lakshimi. O1s and lakshimi are too gimmick laden to be good teaching experiences. If your goal is to raise difficulty to bridge between casual and savage, that 70 trial is going to have to be like an ex trial, with shinryu hard pushed down to about 63, and probably the easier ex trials at 60 taking the place of thordan, right down to 50 ex trials ending the main scenario. You can't raise dungeon difficulty much because you'd massively slow them down, either via trash or bosses, and there's a limit to how hard they can be made when you don't have your full kit. Look at Brayflox hard final boss for an example-the bombs can be really hard for people to deal with if they don't have a point blank circle aoe.

Just annoying, no one ever really thinks about what changes actually mean for players in real practice.

[

At this point I am convinced that Riyah just want the game to play itself for him...my God, Wolf Marks are just brain-dead easy to get and people are just begging for SE to release some more stuffs for them to spend on, because we are capping them all the time. Like, I had to burn my surplus Marks on sets for jobs I had not even leveled...and now I have to burn them on older sets, even though I don't like the looks on some of them.

I have every single piece of garo gear available, and I had them when you could use them as leveling gear. I have all that I want from it save for mounts or minions, and that's because those take on average 200-300 matches played to get one.

My point was that if you wanted to gear up your jobs, and you had more than one of them (i have every single one at 60, and all but two at 70) and you dislike pvp, its a lot more time. Its adds up fast, and most people who think its easy just play an awful lot because they like the mode. its not "oh its only 4k wolf marks" for some people, it can be 144,000 for all that they want. Then there are the minions, the orchestrion roles, etc.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

My point was that if you wanted to gear up your jobs, and you had more than one of them (i have every single one at 60, and all but two at 70) and you dislike pvp, its a lot more time. Its adds up fast, and most people who think its easy just play an awful lot because they like the mode. its not "oh its only 4k wolf marks" for some people, it can be 144,000 for all that they want. Then there are the minions, the orchestrion roles, etc.

There it is.

And yes. It is "only 4K Wolf Marks". 4 wins. 8 losses if you're THAT unfortunate. And it IS easy because I play a lot, but not blindly, and not treating it like a crap shoot. I pushed to get better, then I got better, then it became easier to win. You know, just like people do with endgame PvE content. Ultimate Coil took what, a little over a week? Pretty sure people weren't hitting final phase right away, no matter how good they were. And I'm sure there was frustration in doing it, but more than that, there was determination, and a will to succeed. And they did. That same mentality proves beneficial in any content in this game. This isn't me saying treat everything like Ultimate-level content, but have that same determination and willingness to learn and make effort, and you'll see the results you want to see.

Make even a little effort to learn and try and improve, and the game practically throws rewards at you.

[KaivaC]

Kaiva, what do you think "raising the difficulty curve" means? If you think royal menagerie is easy, the only things harder above it are o1s and susano/lakshimi. O1s and lakshimi are too gimmick laden to be good teaching experiences. If your goal is to raise difficulty to bridge between casual and savage, that 70 trial is going to have to be like an ex trial, with shinryu hard pushed down to about 63, and probably the easier ex trials at 60 taking the place of thordan, right down to 50 ex trials ending the main scenario. You can't raise dungeon difficulty much because you'd massively slow them down, either via trash or bosses, and there's a limit to how hard they can be made when you don't have your full kit. Look at Brayflox hard final boss for an example-the bombs can be really hard for people to deal with if they don't have a point blank circle aoe.

Just annoying, no one ever really thinks about what changes actually mean for players in real practice.

You can raise the dungeon difficulty. Having a bunch of trash mobs does not equate difficulty...they are currently little more than AOE fodder. I wish to see the devs start to get away from this mindset of filling dungeons with trash mobs to add in a false sense of difficulty for dungeons. It's already too late to do anything about the dungeons we have now, but future dungeons need to start having a better difficulty curve. Realistically, now that we'll be hitting patch 4.2, even though I know the dungeons are going to essentially be the same type of content, just with different scenery and different bosses, this would ideally be the point where we start seeing the difficulty start to step up and force players to pay attention. If it's not MSQ, why can't the dungeons start having fewer mobs that start challenging each role?

Lakshmi's difficulty results from not paying attention after learning her fight and non-communication. Honestly, the hardest part of this fight falls onto the OT because they need to maintain their aggro to keep the party from being cleaved. Is the fight itself gimmicky? Absolutely. But it is definitely a good learning experience because it forces the entire party to work together. Healers stack with each other, DPS pairs off, and tanks stick together generally throughout the whole fight. Pay attention to which add has a bubble and avoid killing them if they do not have one. Always pop a Vril while Lakshmi is in Chancala mode. Even without the Vril gimmick, once you actually are in a clear party, what's so difficult about those things? And I don't mean from the perspective of a player in a trap party.

O1S is not gimmicky. You've dealt with ice floors before in a few dungeons. Again, like with the Lakshmi example above, once you learn the fight, it shouldn't be difficult to deal with practically any of the mechanics, save for the part with Alte Roite going to the edge. And even that isn't difficult to deal with - the MT just has to bait him, while the rest of the party pays attention to which way he is facing.

As for your Brayflox example, I dunno about each and every DPS job (I do know that SMN would have a little bit of a hard time with that), I believe all tank classes have an AOE attack by 50. I've done runs there on PLD where I was the only one using AOE during that boss fight, and I've been able to make a safe zone for the party. It's not that hard, players just need to stop being lazy about things like this.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

My point was that if you wanted to gear up your jobs, and you had more than one of them (i have every single one at 60, and all but two at 70) and you dislike pvp, its a lot more time. Its adds up fast, and most people who think its easy just play an awful lot because they like the mode. its not "oh its only 4k wolf marks" for some people, it can be 144,000 for all that they want. Then there are the minions, the orchestrion roles, etc.

Just based on your post history, you...

- Despise Savage and raiding in general
- Dislike EX Primals
- Dislike Tomestone gearing (Not that I entirely blame you here)
- Dislike PvP
- Dislike gear progression or its alternatives (Savage, PvP)
- Dislike 24 Mans
- Like Diadem

What do you actually enjoy about this game? Seriously. I have only ever seen you bitch and moan about everything yet you'll be among the first to jump into a parse or Savage thread and cite how toxic raiders are. You'll, of course, omit the fact you don't actually participate in that content. Your entire stance can be summarized to "I only want content I like. Everything is a waste of resources!!" And you'll promptly prattle on about concepts you have no idea about as Sebazy as so eloquently demonstrated. So instead of telling everyone else to stop complaining; to find another game. How about you take your own advice?

[SenorPatty]

Just based on your post history, you...

- Despise Savage and raiding in general
- Dislike EX Primals
- Dislike Tomestone gearing (Not that I entirely blame you here)
- Dislike PvP
- Dislike gear progression or its alternatives (Savage, PvP)
- Dislike 24 Mans
- Like Diadem

What do you actually enjoy about this game? Seriously. I have only ever seen you bitch and moan about everything yet you'll be among the first to jump into a parse or Savage thread and cite how toxic raiders are. You'll, of course, omit the fact you don't actually participate in that content. Your entire stance can be summarized to "I only want content I like. Everything is a waste of resources!!" And you'll promptly prattle on about concepts you have no idea about as Sebazy as so eloquently demonstrated. So instead of telling everyone else to stop complaining; to find another game. How about you take your own advice?

You forgot to add the community to that list.

Usually, I have an issue when someone says "why are you still playing this game?" because its usually used in an over-exaggerated manner in response to someone disliking ONE thing about the game.

But Riyah just...seems to hate everything.

EDIT: oh. Except Diadem.


I think.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

You forgot to add the community to that list.

Usually, I have an issue when someone says "why are you still playing this game?" because its usually used in an over-exaggerated manner in response to someone disliking ONE thing about the game.

But Riyah just...seems to hate everything.

EDIT: oh. Except Diadem.


I think.

You're right!

Mockery aside, I normally feel the same. I just can't understand why Riyah bothers to continue playing since there doesn't seem to be anything she likes.

Wouldn't that defeat the idea of having the normal difficulty raids so people can enjoy the story?

Why can't people who want to progress the story actually have to earn it? Normal doesn't need to be bleeding edge difficult, but I don't think it's too much to ask the supposed "world ending boss" not roll over in five minutes.

[HoodRat]

- Like Diadem

Is that even possible?