What are the most common reasons people don't dps?

[Tridus]

Not to disrupt your discussion with him... We know for a fact that healer dps is not needed, because the developers said the dmg checks are not calculated with them in mind. For me healers should dps, especially in raids, because depending on the ilvl, the skill of the players and how many mistakes the group does, you'll need the extra dps of the healers to either clear content or make progress much faster. During prog people will die and than the dmg could be potencially to low. Personally, i like to do dmg and that improved my healing ability aswell. But nothing of this proves that you NEED healer dps everytime to clear at all and this makes healer dmg optional.

If you don't have the ilvl yet, your DPS can't do enough to clear the fight by themselves. Enter healer DPS. The devs said that, too.

They also made healer DPS easier in Stormblood, which is a pretty curious thing to do if they don't actually want you to do it in group content. As in: the exact opposite thing to do. They could largely stop it overnight if they had made Cleric Stance work like a sect instead of changing spells to not need it at all. And of course, the Hall of the Novice doesn't say "don't do DPS". It says the opposite.

At some point, what the devs say doesn't matter when their actions speak perfectly clearly.

[Tridus]

What I said was satiric, obviosuly. "You play the game play it's your work" is a recurrent jab at MMORPG.

Not really obvious. Satire doesn't carry well online, and people say that as a serious thing. Those people tend to be the same ones you find in any group project who just try to slide by doing as little as possible.

If you were being satirical, fair enough.

[era1Ne]

If you don't have the ilvl yet, your DPS can't do enough to clear the fight by themselves. Enter healer DPS. The devs said that, too.

Do you have a quote? Just curious.

They also made healer DPS easier in Stormblood, which is a pretty curious thing to do if they don't actually want you to do it in group content. As in: the exact opposite thing to do. They could largely stop it overnight if they had made Cleric Stance work like a sect instead of changing spells to not need it at all. And of course, the Hall of the Novice doesn't say "don't do DPS". It says the opposite.

At some point, what the devs say doesn't matter when their actions speak perfectly clearly.

I don't want to take part in the "what do the devs want healers to do" - discussion anymore, because it is imo a never ending, pointless discussion that is based only on the interpretations of people, so please leave me out of that. I didnt even talk about it in my previous comment anyway and just wanted to say something to this quote about healer dps to be not optional, whis is ultimately wrong, because you can for a fact clear content without it. This doesn't mean healers should not dps... This doesn't mean every static can clear it without healer dmg and it doesn't mean a group with lower itemlevel than the content requires can necessarly do it or a group with lower ilvl than the developers balanced the content with can clear it without the help of the healers. What the community does with the fact is their decision and everyone can have an opinion on it

Also, as with anyone who argues for healer dps to be optional, I'd ask you for your tank and dps logs proving you can output the requesite dps as those roles in fights with enrage timers to allow your healers to not dps. If you can't do that, as I strongly suspect is the case, how do you plan to clear that content?

[Sebazy]

Do you have a quote?

I’ve taken the liberty to bold the bit being referred to.

At one point it was decided that Holy was too strong for white mage and it was weakened. Despite that, you're adding additional attack actions besides Holy, were these new abilities added to give some of that capability back?

Yoshida: No, that's not it.


So you expect it to go up overall?

Yoshida: Yes. Since all DPS jobs will be increasing up through level 60, it makes sense to have the white mage's DPS extend by a proportional amount as well. For development, such as with Bahamut's Coils, the development team assumes what the item level should be for general equipment on players when they clear a raid. They sum up the basic DPS for four DPS and tanks at that assumed item level and cut that by about 10-15% for the minimum clear DPS. Healer DPS is not taken into account when this is set.

Certainly for people who are at world's first level, their goal is to clear it at as low an item level as possible, lower than the one assumed during development. So if you look at the fight and figure out that if it's not numerically possible to clear with four DPS and tanks, you'll need to make up the gap with DPS from healers. Then when those publish clear videos and other people see the healers DPSing, they might think that healers need to be DPSing even though its a situation that only arose because their clear would have otherwise been impossible. While we could take this into account, and assume a different item level in the next update which would then make it impossible to clear even with the healer DPS, we'd eliminate this type of play for highly skilled players who use communication, items, and a high level of understanding to come up with those last second clears. That would be a tough decision to make, so I still think it should be up to each party's own plans.

This is also one of the reasons we decided to implement both a normal and savage version of Alexander. Once again, healer DPS was not included in the development team's calculation as it was for other jobs, so you should just think of healer DPS as a last way to get your overall party's DPS up to where it needs to be.

The full article from BG is here:

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/12...-Event-5-19%29

[era1Ne]

I’ve taken the liberty to bold the bit being referred to.



The full article from BG is here:

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/12...-Event-5-19%29

That was quick. Thanks.

Certainly for people who are at world's first level, their goal is to clear it at as low an item level as possible, lower than the one assumed during development.

This is the important bit and what i mentioned as one of the situations in which you need help from the healers. But it is not needed in the sense, that you'll never ever clear without it. You need to be good, have the ilvl the devs balanced the content with and next to no deaths (maybe). This is not an impossible task. Personally i wouldn't do it, because dealing dmg is fun for me.

"I don't want to" is not a good reason to slow down fights and make the lives of others harder.

I have the same opinion about this, even if i defend healers sometimes. But i don't defend healers that think "healer are healers" or the argument you stated are valid. They are not, because this is a team game and everyone should try their best. If the person is inexperienced and therefore decide to focus on healing first, instead of trying to push dmg, then thats fine imo. But doing less with the only reason "hey i joined as a heal!" is just ignorant. Sometimes i think, i don't get the point across, because my english is fairly limited :/

[Vyriah]

The actual sentence Yoshida had about healer DPS was more along the lines of the fight are balance without healer DPS in mind but they're supposed to be cleared with a certain Ilv, so if you're undergeared you will need healer DPS.
That mean we could as well turn this whole conversation the other way and say that healer DPS can ben compensated by outgearing content. And at this point Healer DPS is a clear bonus for a quicker kill or in case mistakes happens. I don't think it's particulary unsane, healer role is also about covering up mistakes when it's possible.

[Tridus]

Do you have a quote? Just curious.

Here's the translation of what he said (original interview is linked from here):

Yoshida: Yes. Since all DPS jobs will be increasing up through level 60, it makes sense to have the white mage's DPS extend by a proportional amount as well. For development, such as with Bahamut's Coils, the development team assumes what the item level should be for general equipment on players when they clear a raid. They sum up the basic DPS for four DPS and tanks at that assumed item level and cut that by about 10-15% for the minimum clear DPS. Healer DPS is not taken into account when this is set.

Certainly for people who are at world's first level, their goal is to clear it at as low an item level as possible, lower than the one assumed during development. So if you look at the fight and figure out that if it's not numerically possible to clear with four DPS and tanks, you'll need to make up the gap with DPS from healers. Then when those publish clear videos and other people see the healers DPSing, they might think that healers need to be DPSing even though its a situation that only arose because their clear would have otherwise been impossible. While we could take this into account, and assume a different item level in the next update which would then make it impossible to clear even with the healer DPS, we'd eliminate this type of play for highly skilled players who use communication, items, and a high level of understanding to come up with those last second clears. That would be a tough decision to make, so I still think it should be up to each party's own plans.

This is also one of the reasons we decided to implement both a normal and savage version of Alexander. Once again, healer DPS was not included in the development team's calculation as it was for other jobs, so you should just think of healer DPS as a last way to get your overall party's DPS up to where it needs to be.

The progression folks don't have the numerical ilvl to clear even if the DPS play absolutely flawlessly, and at that point either the healers have to make up the difference or you don't clear until you get more gear. As you go into later groups you probably do have the gear, but also don't have people who can play as close to perfect. That's what makes healer DPS so valuable: even a little bit can get you over the hump because it's effectively bonus.

[RopeDrink]

And it's a bonus we are in a great position to provide. The topic, however, is asking those who choose not to provide it a simple question... Why not?

Naturally we can't compare above-mentioned progression to, say, signing up for an Expert Roulette at a point where most people are at least 310-330, but the principle is the same. We simply do not have to heal all the time, not matter how squishy the tank is, no matter how low the DPS is, no matter what excuse - there is always that little window (or ten) to do something... And it is those who decide to open that window, look outside and admire the view until it's gone that drive me nuts.

[Cynfael]

The actual sentence Yoshida had about healer DPS was more along the lines of the fight are balance without healer DPS in mind but they're supposed to be cleared with a certain Ilv, so if you're undergeared you will need healer DPS.
That mean we could as well turn this whole conversation the other way and say that healer DPS can ben compensated by outgearing content. And at this point Healer DPS is a clear bonus for a quicker kill or in case mistakes happens. I don't think it's particulary unsane, healer role is also about covering up mistakes when it's possible.

Following that sort of reasoning, playing skillfully is a “bonus” that isn’t strictly required to clear the vast majority of the game’s content. While this happens to be true, it’s a sad way to look at things.

[Vyriah]

Following that sort of reasoning, playing skillfully is a “bonus” that isn’t strictly required to clear the vast majority of the game’s content. While this happens to be true, it’s a sad way to look at things.

How so ?
What I find sad is saying some one that would come into the this forum and say "I beat NeoExdeath but i'm a bad healer". How in the world ? That's an achievement, be proud of it. And there's still even more room for improvement after that. That's all good things, no drawback, why would someone even be agonizing over want to improve ? That's absurd, that's exactly what the game is about.

Overperforming is litterally just bonus, something you do because you can. That's what is great about it, you don't need it to do it but you still do it because you want to do it. And at some point because you can do it. How's that sad ? That's the best part of learning anything.