What are the most common reasons people don't dps?

[Sebazy]

Oh, I see. Perhaps you should point out your point instead of assuming everyone uses parsers and knows what they're looking at? I don't run with parsers. Obviously. You missed the ball with one of my Ex runs. A RDM raised 12 times. I never said they never did it. That's why I said 99.9% silly.

Again I repeat:

You are a unicorn. As in, I've never had a rdm help me with raises. Even when both healers are dead.

It took me ~30 seconds to find an occasion where you yourself were raised repeatedly by a RDM. I'm not even going to bother debunking your 99.9% thing because we both know that that's nonsensical.

Frankly, that's not even my favourite thing that you've spouted here:

I can't wait until they take healer DPS out just to end the healer hate that people spread. It's coming. Man. They started this expac (why do you think SCH DPS was nerfed into the ground?) and I wouldn't be surprised if by the next one, it'll be zeroed out altogether.

That's absolutely delicious, and this is coming from likely the 'healiest' healer in my FC.

It's pretty clear that you simply don't understand the gravity of these things that you are saying. You're just projecting your personal whims and desires over pretty much anything that vaguely lines up.

Before you reply to this or anyone else's post in this thread, just stop and think for a moment about what would actually happen if SE really did zero out healer DPS altogether. And no I don't even mean in hardcore content, casual gameplay for healers would be utterly obliterated. Wandering past a fate that you fancy clearing? Oh right, time to bookslap it to death. No worries, I'll go do my beast tribe dailies, oh wait, afk for 10 minutes whilst I bookslap each mob to death. My group wants me to test myself on SSS, ok I've right clicked it, brb in 10 minutes, let me know if I pass it or not.

I could go on and on. It doesn't matter one iota about our feelings towards healer DPS, it is an essential evil in any solo friendly theme park MMO.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

No worries, I'll go do my beast tribe dailies, oh wait, afk for 10 minutes whilst I bookslap each mob to death. My group wants me to test myself on SSS, ok I've right clicked it, brb in 10 minutes, let me know if I pass it or not.

This actually intrigued me and so I took the liberty to go into Stone, Sky, Sea in the hinterlands. Figured I'd start easy before I take on the real meat of level 70 content with booksmacking dps checks. Or in this case, papercutting with divinity cards. I apologize for the lack of blunt book action.

It went surprisingly well! Although I didn't quite make it entirely with just papercuts, I sure showed the dummy and knocked it down to a whopping 97%! If we were given the time we'd clear it in about 100 minutes! How about that, better than anticipated than 10 years. But how can we be satisfied with this kind of low level play and simply go ham on it without the proper gear. So I scraped together some strength accessories I had to get an additional 259 strength. With now my damage almost quadruppled in numbers - From 46-51 damage to an astonishing 185-201 - I took the very same striking dummy down to, wait for it, 89%! But I'm positive that with some favourable RNG it would have been 88%. With some good RNG it would only take 40 minutes to take down a level 60 monster with the same HP. Thus only 2 hours to clear a quest where you have to slay 3 target monsters. FATEs tend to have you defeat twenty or so mobs. So if SE would be so kind to up the FATE timers to 800 minutes so healers can actually solo them we'd be all set.

[Vyriah]

I find it funny that people always bring up how fights weren't designed for healers to dps, but they conveniently say nothing about how fights weren't designed for healers to spam heals on people at full hp or stand idle for extended periods of time. Everyone wants to quote Yoshida when he said he didn't want healers to feel forced into dps, but for some reason they never quote him saying healers should spend their free time overhealing or doing absolutely nothing at all.

For some reason, no one ever quoted him saying that I was wrong when I say that this a devil's proof.

There's mechanic in the game the prevent people for using too much heal, it's mana. I'm pretty sur I've said something about that but everyone "conveniently" ignored it.
Wait, do I need to quote myself on this ?

[Cynfael]

There's mechanic in the game the prevent people for using too much heal, it's mana.

This is a very strange statement that seems to imply that mana isn't both in abundant supply and able to be replenished more quickly in several useful ways across the board. Not sure where you're going with that line of thought.

[Vyriah]

snip

I'm not going anywhere, this something Yoshida actually said. There's a whole documentary about 1.0 and ARR and he evoques this issue with healer in 1.0 being able to use any heal they wanted. So know they cost a lot of mana and reiryu exists and I'm anrgy about it, really long story short.

You may supply in mana some that would use cure through absolutly all Brayflox (though, I'm not sure you can do it all the way to the end) but I'm not sure why you would do that anyway. The mana cost of healing spells and the aggro they generate actually make player stop doing them at some point. Wich in turn would be a proof that not all non-DPS are unwilling to learn as they stop spamming cure at some point if they're not doing anything.

But I do agree that mana doesn't really do the job that much. It's restrictive in a poor way in late game and so lenient it could not be here early.

[MoroMurasaki]

Wait, do I need to quote myself on this ?

You do need to quote yourself because I have no idea what you're talking about. Like, legitimately. I would love nothing more than to debate you into the wee hours of the morning about healer dps but at the end of the day you're rushing too much and missing words/cohearent thought in your posts.

If you can articulate what exactly your issue is with the expectation for healers to dps being commonplace by all means please do so. Right now I've read all your posts for the last few pages and they read like nonsense.

this same old argument

Dev intent never means more than actual gameplay.

You people.... ugh, you people. You love to bring up fights not being balanced with healer dps in mind. Do you think that means fights are balanced with healers emote-spamming in mind? It doesn't matter.

You can take some clay and make a water pitcher out of it and give it to me. If I look at it and think it's a vase and stick some flowers in there guess what? It's a vase now. Creating something doesn't mean you get to interperet how it will be recieved, only that you can aim it in whatever direction you want. If the devs wanted to end this debate they could alter healer kits to reflect their wishes and temper fights to not have so much downtime. Seeing as they've done neither of those things I'd say you're barking up the wrong tree here.

Also, as with anyone who argues for healer dps to be optional, I'd ask you for your tank and dps logs proving you can output the requesite dps as those roles in fights with enrage timers to allow your healers to not dps. If you can't do that, as I strongly suspect is the case, how do you plan to clear that content?

[VanilleFang]

But I do agree that mana doesn't really do the job that much. Is restrictive in a poor way in late game and so lenient it could not be here early.

In what way is MP restrictive late game? With WHM especially, MP is incredibly easy to replenish and maintain.

[era1Ne]

Also, as with anyone who argues for healer dps to be optional, I'd ask you for your tank and dps logs proving you can output the requesite dps as those roles in fights with enrage timers to allow your healers to not dps. If you can't do that, as I strongly suspect is the case, how do you plan to clear that content?

Not to disrupt your discussion with him... We know for a fact that healer dps is not needed, because the developers said the dmg checks are not calculated with them in mind. For me healers should dps, especially in raids, because depending on the ilvl, the skill of the players and how many mistakes the group does, you'll need the extra dps of the healers to either clear content or make progress much faster. During prog people will die and than the dmg could be potencially to low. Personally, i like to do dmg and that improved my healing ability aswell. But nothing of this proves that you NEED healer dps everytime to clear at all and this makes healer dmg optional. Certainly, not for every group and every situation (prog for instance), but it is possible to clear ex or savage fights without healers throwing one stone.

I can't wait until they take healer DPS out just to end the healer hate that people spread. It's coming. Man. They started this expac (why do you think SCH DPS was nerfed into the ground?) and I wouldn't be surprised if by the next one, it'll be zeroed out altogether.

I would probably stop playing healer if this happens, because only healing is especially boring in this game. There are just not enough attacks/mechanics over the course of a fight. While the dmg is more frequent in other games, playing an pure healer is stil not fun to me in those mmo and i hope, they dont listen to the "pure healer" crowd. I want to deal dmg and heal, think about ways to improve, to be more efficient and imo healing in any game was never as fun as healing here currently.

[Kurando]

Little bit off topic of the previous posts but I came across a healer in one of the alliance raids I was tanking the other day, that wasn't doing any DPS at all. I wasn't particularly bothered but the co-healer sure had something to say about it and it didn't take long for salt stocks to go on the rise. I remember the healer (that wasn't dpsing) saying that if they wanted to DPS then they would have queued as a DPS instead of a healer. At that point I kinda thought well since the change to Cleric Stance it has never been easier to DPS and there is no barrier to stop the healer from participating in dealing damage. Also it was kinda funny that the healer called themselves a "Raid Progressor", although the mentality seemed to contradict that, oh well.

In the end we can't stop people from playing how they want to, more so when you use the Duty Finder, but any healer that can throw out a dot or two here and there then that's always appreciated.

[Jollyy5]

To sum up a few previous posts:

Healer DPS in most content isn't necessary but it REALLY helps, much more than standing around doing nothing or overhealing, so DPS when you don't have to heal, because there will be moments when you don't have to heal.

"I don't want to" is not a good reason to slow down fights and make the lives of others harder.