[1206] Water spells

[Alcide]

As for water based, yes, healing has always been either Water, Light or Wind based. There's some exception, but quite a bit of RPGs (including FF) it fell into one of those 3.

Uhm so in the Leviathan fight we're gonna punch ourselfs while Leviathan is casting CuragaXIV on the party?
And mobs with water weakness are gonna be either undead or just... free from elemental weaknesses?

IMHO elemental affinities/weaknesses and the fact that all the elemental nukes were basically the same and you had to keep in mind the relation betwen the mob and the spell in order to get the most damage output was a huge step forward from FFXI and elemental nukes from all of the elements, simple and clean, without any other addition or debuff is a benchmark of BLM in the Final Fantasy serie... isn't it what they were aiming for with the class revision?

[Chopin]

I think they assume people would know healing is generally Wind/Water/Light based, controlling elements doesn't necessarily mean controlling nukes.

This is probably the case I just wish they were more clear when they made this kind of posts what they are refering to. It's obvious the way they have posted this is going to annoy players, I'm all for them sharing information but when it's sketchy like this it leads to too many assumptions.

[grandm]

Uhm so in the Leviathan fight we're gonna punch ourselfs while Leviathan is casting CuragaXIV on the party?
And mobs with water weakness are gonna be either undead or just... free from elemental weaknesses?

IMHO elemental affinities/weaknesses and the fact that all the elemental nukes were basically the same and you had to keep in mind the relation betwen the mob and the spell in order to get the most damage output was a huge step forward from FFXI and elemental nukes from all of the elements, simple and clean, without any other addition or debuff is a benchmark of BLM in the Final Fantasy serie... isn't it what they were aiming for with the class revision?

this would not be the first time that an element can both be used to heal and hurt
one example FF7, healing wind limit break. tornado wind damage

[Chopin]

IMHO elemental affinities/weaknesses and the fact that all the elemental nukes were basically the same and you had to keep in mind the relation betwen the mob and the spell in order to get the most damage output was a huge step forward from FFXI and elemental nukes from all of the elements, simple and clean, without any other addition or debuff is a benchmark of BLM in the Final Fantasy serie... isn't it what they were aiming for with the class revision?

This is pretty much how I feel too. As much as some players like the class system it's one of the reasons the series come under such scrutany at release. I'm not trying to cause trouble here either, I'm going to happily pay the subscription fee to help support the game along even though I play at most 2 days a month. I have faith this will come out the other side an amazing game and some of the things they have planned are so exciting. It's just the new class/job system seems a bit uneccesarily complicated to me. I like the idea of RDM being the only enfeebler etc as it promotes varied party play but I like BLM as BLM and WHM as WHM.

I also worry about going forward that in order for them to keep introducing jobs they will need to also create a class that compliments it. This effectively doubles the time it takes to make new jobs and one thing I love in an MMO is varied classes. It's probably my main reason for playing XI for all those years. I just don't see how this system can give birth to jobs like Scholar, Blue Mage, etc.

[Airget]

Those overall changes are odd, it's like why bother having rods and wands that have elemental affinity for all 6 elements when you can't even customize which element you want to do the most damage with. It really takes away from allowing a mage to customize themselves in being efficient in the element of their choice. However, it may work with how the abilities all seem to level at the same pace so in the end, aside from Water all the elements should be able to dish a decent amount of damage regardless of if they are an AOE, single target, enfeeble based effect.

[DeadRiser]

I think they assume people would know healing is generally Wind/Water/Light based, controlling elements doesn't necessarily mean controlling nukes.

Makes sense, I just wish they would inform us on the big picture ya know? Like what's gonna happen with the elemental wheel we have now and the future. I mean I loved focusing on water spells but wouldn't mind if it focused on your healing spells.

And I know light doesn't equal white mage and dark doesn't equal black mage... but it seems like they are kind of going this root, especially with changing the astral/umbral damage?

Like earth, water, and wind will now be astral damage
and ice, fire, and lightning will be umbral and go to the respective mages? Just ranting thoughts lol

[JTSpender]

...elemental nukes from all of the elements, simple and clean, without any other addition or debuff is a benchmark of BLM in the Final Fantasy serie... isn't it what they were aiming for with the class revision?

Uh, not really. BLM's standard nukes have generally been Fire/Ice/Thunder (or "Bolt", or "Lit" because that was fewer characters). Water did get added to that core set in a couple of the later games. But many (most?) of the FF games had other elements that the BLM or main nuker couldn't use that only had a few odd one-off spells, summons, abilities, or weapons that produced those elemental effects (earth and wind, usually water). I would actually say one thing that has made the FF series stand out compared to a lot of other RPGs is the total *lack* of a balanced elemental wheel or opposition chart in almost all games.

I agree that the FFXI system where certain elemental nukes were weaker due to level progression was pretty dumb, but with ability scaling that's not an issue here. And I think not making every nuke exactly the same and spreading the elements out makes for a much more interesting tactical situation. I assume that encounters are going to be built with the goal of not making any class totally useless. And in fact, one strong way to do that might be to add back a couple of BLM's many, many interesting non-elemental spells that have gotten short-shrift over the years. (I was just playing FFIII recently, and there's so much more to BLM life than Fire/Ice/Thunder.)

[Darkvalkyr]

In other FF games things had a weakness beyond the pre FF10 trinity of Fire/Lightning/Ice such as Water, Earth and Wind but players don't normally get access to those spells except in rare situations or have to use weapons with said property.

Using FF7 as an example;
Aqualung is an Enemy Skill with Water Element, used on water weak enemies. There is no other spell to do water damage beyond Leviathan as far as I recall, and probably use other weapons.

You see Laps cast Aero 3 which is a wind nuke that players don't get. However, some enemies are weak to wind in the game.

People seem to be seeing the 3 elements splitting as a step back but I honestly don't mind; and as far as how Water damage spell/Enfeebles is missing, we might get them in the future or maybe we won't. It's pointless to rage and be jerks to the devs about something when there's so many drastic changes in the future, which we agreed to.

If you want to forward criticism, that's fine. But some of you are absolute jerks going about it as if the world caters to you.

[ZDamned]

I just want to know why the BLK/THM class/job description states 6 elements... lol I preferred they just get 3 each, because having to re allocate nukes every mob is was nauseating.

[Jinko]

Uhm so in the Leviathan fight we're gonna punch ourselfs while Leviathan is casting CuragaXIV on the party?
And mobs with water weakness are gonna be either undead or just... free from elemental weaknesses?

Perhaps /sarcasm

Leviathan uses tidal wave, drowns the party, brings them back to life as undead then proceeds to nuke them with CuragaXIV.

Those overall changes are odd, it's like why bother having rods and wands that have elemental affinity for all 6 elements when you can't even customize which element you want to do the most damage with. It really takes away from allowing a mage to customize themselves in being efficient in the element of their choice. However, it may work with how the abilities all seem to level at the same pace so in the end, aside from Water all the elements should be able to dish a decent amount of damage regardless of if they are an AOE, single target, enfeeble based effect.

Assumption.
If water magic is healing then Water staffs and wands will hopefully boost healing. I would actually much prefer a system where a healer equipped water based gear and materia than ones with healing potency for example.

Leviathan staff can i have it ?