What are the most common reasons people don't dps?

[Alisi]

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Hypocrisy? You don't even understand what we're talking about. We're not talking about "covering each other's asses" or even about whether a healer should DPS or not but rather this whole tone you and everyone else in this thread takes. This healer hate that's endemic. It's not the same for other roles. Not to this level. People openly talk shit about healers all the time. In FCs, on forums, etc. This is just one more example. Healers don't do enough. We must shame healers into doing more.

I can't wait until they take healer DPS out just to end the healer hate that people spread. It's coming. Man. They started this expac (why do you think SCH DPS was nerfed into the ground?) and I wouldn't be surprised if by the next one, it'll be zeroed out altogether.

The fact you even ask the question, though, only shows that after over 700 pages worth of discussion, the reasons for why healer DPS is a thing still aren't well understood.

Did you even read that thread or just pick the first one you came across? LOL. Yes. I'm sorrrrrrrrrry. You found one thread. Wow. That is really the same as having a running thread always up in the healer forum and sometimes elsewhere on this site.

[Jollyy5]

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SCH and WHM can still put out some pretty respectable DPS numbers even on single targets with the right gear.

And have you even tried popping Cleric Stance -> DoTs -> Bane -> Miasma II -> Shadow Flare -> Miasma II spam in a dungeon on a big group of mobs until everything is dead? That BLM is crying some of the saltiest tears as you are whooping their buttocks in DPS.


I really doubt SE is going to make the healer DPS go away anytime soon, as it would also be stepping on many current healers' toes.

[Alisi]

SCH and WHM can still put out some pretty respectable DPS numbers even on single targets with the right gear.

Yes. But SCH, the "DPS" healer, was nerfed into the ground at the start of the expac. They only went back when people basically stopped playing it. So, yeah, right now SCH can DPS just fine but that's clearly a bandaid. They took redid CS to keep people from forcing healers into DPSing if they don't want to. Yoshi-P said that himself and they nerfed SCH DPS. Where exactly do you think the train's heading, huh?

[Sebazy]

Yes. But SCH, the "DPS" healer, was nerfed into the ground at the start of the expac. They only went back when people basically stopped playing it. So, yeah, right now SCH can DPS just fine but that's clearly a bandaid. They took redid CS to keep people from forcing healers into DPSing if they don't want to. Yoshi-P said that himself and they nerfed SCH DPS. Where exactly do you think the train's heading, huh?

Heya.

Going to go slightly offtrack here, but I think you misunderstand the situation that SCH's found themselves in at the release of SB.

SCH's DPS was combination of 3 problems:

The nerfs to the Arcanist DPS kit that were aimed at SMN actually hit SCH far harder.

SCH lost a dot to the dot merger like every other healer.

SCH also lost out massively via role actions, both Blizzard II and Aero were significant losses to their DPS kit.

When combined, these issues snowballed leaving SCH in the same situation that AST is in pre Gravity. Doing Dungeons and other mainstream content without any viable source of spammable AoE flat out sucks. It's just horrible.

Was this an intentional nerf to SCH? I say no, I'm knocking on the door of 4K DPS in expert as WHM and AST isn't half bad either. I firmly believe that the class team for SB had little to no interest or knowledge about the healing jobs and as such, they just didn't realise that SCH's AoE potential would get absolutely obliterated in the way that it did. Miasma II getting returned back to SCH was an long overdue olive branch that should have been there from release.

Not really got much to say about your Cleric stance commentary other than 'you're wrong'. Go watch the Stormblood live letter or look up any of his interviews on the subject. He hated the ability because it was an anchor around the average players neck.

You are a unicorn. As in, I've never had a rdm help me with raises. Even when both healers are dead.

Just because you don't see something, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Instead, consider that you might need to pay more attention.

If DPS checks are not being met, DPS needs to take a hard look at their own numbers and stop replying on healers as a crutch to push numbers.

What would you propose you do when you hit a point where they can't feasibly do any more DPS with the experience, ability and gear that they have? All manner of teams find themselves asking this question, it most certainly isn't a situation that's exclusive to hardcore teams on early progression.

[Alisi]

Just because you don't see something, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Instead, consider that you might need to pay more attention.

You're a unicorn too. Congrats. Have a cookie.

[VanilleFang]

You're a unicorn too. Congrats. Have a cookie.

I see it all the time. Seriously, I feel like I have to race to not waste my Swiftcast more often then not.

[Sebazy]

You're a unicorn too. Congrats. Have a cookie.

Nuhuh, I'm a Lala, silly.

You are a unicorn. As in, I've never had a rdm help me with raises. Even when both healers are dead.

The RDM who raised you, twice no less is the real unicorn here

Just incase you're not understanding what I'm saying here:

Here's a Rabanastre with 21 RDM Veraises and 7 SMN Resses.

Here's one with 7 RDM Veraises and a staggering 49 SMN Resses

This isn't limited to 24 man content either, I'm not going to start linking your EX stuff as that's taking it a bit far, but I can assure you that you have in-fact been pipped to the punch for raises on multiple occasions.

Please consider that it's not a case of these people aren't helping. Rather that you simply aren't noticing it when it happens for whatever reason.

[miraidensetsu]

And have you even tried popping Cleric Stance -> DoTs -> Bane -> Miasma II -> Shadow Flare -> Miasma II spam in a dungeon on a big group of mobs until everything is dead? That BLM is crying some of the saltiest tears as you are whooping their buttocks in DPS.

OMG! Now a Scholar rotation can outDPS even a proper rotation from BLM doing something like Blizzard III > Enochian > Blizzard IV > Thunder IV > Fire III > Fire II x 2 > Flare x 2 > Transpose > Repeat from Blizzard IV while keeping Foul on CD.

[Jollyy5]

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Well, the point was that a Scholar can put out some really good numbers if they care.

And I suppose I just haven't seen any stellar BLM DPS in a good long while, as most players who care about their DPS numbers have ditched BLM for being underwhelming currently, I would imagine.

[miraidensetsu]

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Great damage contribution is entirely different from outDPS a DPS player. The former is entirely possible if the healer put some effort. The later is only possible if the DPS player don't put enough effort.

Even underwhelmed by the other DPS jobs (mind you, the BLM problem is not personal DPS per se, but the lack of party utility, what hinders his rDPS), BLM have at least twice as damage as any healer out there if he have the right equips and puts effort on doing damage. And it's obvous, because the BLM spells have more potency and he don't have to stop its rotation to heal at least the tank. And BLM have more damaging spells. Holy (200-pot) don't do as much damage as Foul (650-pot), Fire IV (468-pot on AF3) or Flare (468-pot on AF3). To this BLM doing less damage than a WHM, he must be spamming Fire II (144-pot on AF3).

Or there are healers doing 5K~6K DPS on O4S and I'm not knowing? If so, please, show the parse of someone doing that. I need some inspiration for leveling a healer.

10~15% damage is significant, yes. That 1~1.5 minute gained with healer DPS on a 10 minute run can transform a enrage into a clear. But the tendency to overestimate the healer DPS contribution... Hmmm...