What are the most common reasons people don't dps?

[Jollyy5]

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Well, the point was that a Scholar can put out some really good numbers if they care.

And I suppose I just haven't seen any stellar BLM DPS in a good long while, as most players who care about their DPS numbers have ditched BLM for being underwhelming currently, I would imagine.

[miraidensetsu]

Looks like you're late to the party. People don't expect Healers to become full-blown DPS. They expect Healers - during downtime (of which there is plenty) - to do something other than AFK or spew out constant overhealing. An earlier post sums it up: You don't always need healing - you always need damage.

The guide posted here says that with those words: "DPSing isn’t something you start doing when there’s nothing for you to heal. It should be something you stop doing when the fight requires you to heal."

TL;DR: DPS first, heal only when needed.


[QUOTE=RopeDrink;4541039]As a WHM who will often represent 18-20% of total-team damage done in the likes of Skalla, capable of at least 2k ST DPS on low-healing intensive fights (such as Poisontongue, last boss) WHILE keeping people alive, it seems that by your mentality, it is perfectly fine for me to randomly decide that throwing that 20% down the toilet and extending the content duration by 5-8mins is cool, simply because it's not my 'primary' responsibility (Healing). However, it is everyone's responsibility to get targets dead - and it just so happens that damage is the primary resource for this, which EVERYONE can contribute to.

A single WHM doing the same damage as the top DPS player on Skalla? OMG! So much personal DPS!

I am cetic about that value. 20% is way too much for a job that have a lower DPS uptime and less potency than a proper DPS job. On top O4S parses, for instance, each healer does about 6.5~8.5% damage each. And the sum of both healers is about ~15%. The DPS players does each one as much DPS as both healers together.

Healer DPS is not that big.

Having played BRD a lot lately, it's not my responsibility to manage a Healer's MP, yet I met one today who was crying for Refresh on that pre-last-boss pack. Is it OK for me to deny party-buffs because some might hinder my own DPS (which is my responsibility as BRD)?

You tell me as DPS main: It's OK for you to deny party-buffs, wich can cost your DPS? If some other bard left that healer without mana (maybe until his Lucid Dreaming get out of CD), the bard were right?

[Jollyy5]

The guide posted here says that with those words: "DPSing isn’t something you start doing when there’s nothing for you to heal. It should be something you stop doing when the fight requires you to heal."

TL;DR: DPS first, heal only when needed.

Accurate, true in every MMO, your job is not to keep everyone at 100%, it's to keep everyone alive.

The more you can pump out damage, the faster the enemy dies which is the primary goal most of the time. You could apply that in WoW as well, but that game gives you very little time to do anything but heal, but that's just how WoW works.

In FFXIV however, healing requirements are much lower and cause downtime, which has been pointed out many times, and that downtime is then filled with DPS because it's the best thing to do.

[Sebazy]

I am cetic about that value. 20% is way too much for a job that have a lower DPS uptime and less potency than a proper DPS job. On top O4S parses, for instance, each healer does about 6.5~8.5% damage each. And the sum of both healers is about ~15%. The DPS players does each one as much DPS as both healers together.

Healer DPS is not that big.

Actually Rope is pretty much bang on the money with that 20% figure as far as Dungeons go.

Case in point

I'm pretty confident that the numbers I pull across entire dungeons are right near the ceiling of what a WHM can achieve without actively padding via double healer or double BRD.

Both Valle and Terru are also very very hot on their respective jobs (example) and I strongly suspect the numbers they pulled in that dungeon are also at the top of the pile as well. Miq's numbers weren't too shabby either given that's not a job he actively plays. In short, all four of us were giving it the beans there. I was competing against a standard of play that you're highly unlikely to see in a solo queue, yet I'm still managing to contribute around 20% of the total damage across the run.

In solo queues, my contribution will routinely jump to 30% or even considerably more.

A WHM 'shouldn't' match a top tier DPS in Skalla, but we can get crazy close in dungeons with a mixture of practice, focus and bravado.

*edit regarding below*

Or there are healers doing 5K~6K DPS on O4S and I'm not knowing? If so, please, show the parse of someone doing that. I need some inspiration for leveling a healer.

Rope never mentioned O4S? The closest they got to this was mentioning 'at least 2K single target' which again, is a fair and reasonable number to aim for on most bosses including the majority of Savage.

[miraidensetsu]

snip

Great damage contribution is entirely different from outDPS a DPS player. The former is entirely possible if the healer put some effort. The later is only possible if the DPS player don't put enough effort.

Even underwhelmed by the other DPS jobs (mind you, the BLM problem is not personal DPS per se, but the lack of party utility, what hinders his rDPS), BLM have at least twice as damage as any healer out there if he have the right equips and puts effort on doing damage. And it's obvous, because the BLM spells have more potency and he don't have to stop its rotation to heal at least the tank. And BLM have more damaging spells. Holy (200-pot) don't do as much damage as Foul (650-pot), Fire IV (468-pot on AF3) or Flare (468-pot on AF3). To this BLM doing less damage than a WHM, he must be spamming Fire II (144-pot on AF3).

Or there are healers doing 5K~6K DPS on O4S and I'm not knowing? If so, please, show the parse of someone doing that. I need some inspiration for leveling a healer.

10~15% damage is significant, yes. That 1~1.5 minute gained with healer DPS on a 10 minute run can transform a enrage into a clear. But the tendency to overestimate the healer DPS contribution... Hmmm...

[Jollyy5]

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I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish here.

Yes, I was exaggerating to give an example and to prove a point, a healer will never beat a -good- BLM.

I was also speaking dungeons, AoE to be specific, and "respectable numbers on single targets" as in 2-3k+ which for a healer in high-end content is pretty banging.

I wasn't actively trying to turn this into a "DD DPS vs. Healer DPS", and neither should you.

[RopeDrink]

@Miraiden - I get the impression you're misunderstood. Suggest re-reading my post as it is neither self-glorifying nor a testament to Healer DPS at all.

You're also comparing a WHM/Skalla (four people in a trash-heavy environment, ie. Holy Heaven) to raids with higher healing emphasis and larger player counts. Regardless, the point wasn't about how much was contributed (or how it was contributed), but the fact that, based on their post (ie. mine was made in response to someone), it would have been fine for me to sit on my laurels, contribute nothing and let the Skalla magically extend by 5-10mins because reasons.

PS. The 20% was a figure reached in two consecutive Skalla's back to back. However, referencing overall-done in a WHM's optimal scenario isn't entirely fair, hence a ST-number was provided for Poisontongue, which is a perfect example of a 'casual' fight that gives you pleeeeenty of downtime to do something other than heal, regardless of Healing class.

EDIT:

Actually Rope is pretty much bang on the money with that 20% figure as far as Dungeons go.

I'm not one for pulling numbers out of thin-air and claiming them to be facts. I'm sure you love Holy just as much as I do

[miraidensetsu]

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Almost 4k DPS for a healer is VERY impressive, even coming from a top player (like you're) at trash mobs.

But I coudn't help but to try to figure out what that bard was doing on your 1st log. While you started attacking immediatly, he took ~50 seconds to do the 1st damage. I wonder why? The other DPS was doing 5K DPS. Good.

The same with the other log where you outDPSed everyone. Why that BLM was doing less than 1.9K DPS? Why that BLM done no damage at all for ~8 seconds (more than 3 GCDs)? And his rotation sounds OK for me, but how was his equips? And how about that SAM? How was his equips as well? Why 2.2K DPS?

I need some context on this run before doing my judgements.

[Sebazy]

But I coudn't help but to try to figure out what that bard was doing on your 1st log. While you started attacking immediatly, he took ~50 seconds to do the 1st damage. I wonder why? The other DPS was doing 5K DPS. Good.

Good spot.

From the looks of it, he went AFK immediately after the second boss and missed out on the first of the two double pack pulls leading to Coeurlfist. Outside of that he wasn't hanging about tho, it's actually quite interesting to see how close the damage trace is between us I had a narrow edge on the trash whereas he handily beat me on the bosses. If I was one for guesses, I'd say that AFK likely cost him 400-500DPS on his average across the dungeon? So by rights he should have beaten me by a bigger margin.

The same with the other log where you outDPSed everyone. Why that BLM was doing less than 1.9K DPS? Why that BLM done no damage at all for ~8 seconds (more than 3 GCDs)? And his rotation sounds OK for me, but how was his equips? And how about that SAM? How was his equips as well? Why 2.2K DPS?

Depressingly, the best response I can give to that is simply that they were 'doing as pugs do' and likely not hounding GCDs to the nth degree in the manner that I do. Not getting going on their damage for that amount of time is pretty common place amongst more mainstream players. For someone who simply does dungeons and 24 mans, playing with the kind of urgency and tempo that I do likely seems a bit silly.

As for gear, I can't say I looked, but it's safe to assume that it's going to be in the low 320s at best and likely lower. I'm not berating those people for their gear or play (I've seen significantly worse), that's just a pretty typical standard that I see in solo queue dungeons if my logs are to be believed. That one wasn't cherry picked, I can link plenty more with very similar overall numbers.

[Vyriah]

Accurate, true in every MMO, your job is not to keep everyone at 100%, it's to keep everyone alive.

The more you can pump out damage, the faster the enemy dies which is the primary goal most of the time. You could apply that in WoW as well, but that game gives you very little time to do anything but heal, but that's just how WoW works.

This isn't just how WoW works, lots of MMO are like that. It's FF XIV that's unusually DPS centric.

And that leave a lot of flaw behind. Like the state BLM is right now. It's not class that is bad, it's the way the game is balanced that makes its mathematically useless. If raid DPS is the only issue, and is an issue like it is now that there's the new Bahamut, there will necesserly be a best solution and a worst one. Unless every class is the same. There is no point in having a class that deal out constant DPS if a burst class can do better by just using everything on cooldown. You can balance that by making burst phase on longer cooldown, but half of the problem is solved them.
Encounters that take in consideration that one party will be able to deal more DPS in short time whil another will have stronger DPS in the long run is the final goal. Play the burst and DPS check will be easier, but be carefull for the enrage. Play the big numbers guys and you won't see enrage, but DPS check will be tigher. This chance "take the best" to "take what you prefer". This also solve the AST vs SCH issue, as AST can support their hard carry better while SCH can support raid wide burst phase.

FF XIV have been way to conservative in the way they do thing in this update so far, everything is pretty bland. everyone is currently playing FFlogs more than FF XIV at some point.