What are the most common reasons people don't dps?

[Jollyy5]

...

Because tanks and DPS are most of the time doing something to contribute towards a common goal, as in pressing a button for damage or damage mitigation every 2.5 seconds (GCD), while some healers are either not pressing any buttons to contribute towards said goal, or are pressing the wrong button (healing people already at full health) to the benefit of no one.

I can't stress enough how good this guide is, and how well it explains what you are supposed to do as a healer and why.

Are you prepared to suffer?

[RopeDrink]

Why is this the only game in which I see everyone expecting a HEALING class to help push DPS numbers?

Looks like you're late to the party. People don't expect Healers to become full-blown DPS. They expect Healers - during downtime (of which there is plenty) - to do something other than AFK or spew out constant overhealing. An earlier post sums it up: You don't always need healing - you always need damage.

The gripe is against those who have ample opportunity to do damage but waste it by spamming Cure's on healthy targets (or stand around watching other people do work when nobody needs healing). As a WHM who will often represent 18-20% of total-team damage done in the likes of Skalla, capable of at least 2k ST DPS on low-healing intensive fights (such as Poisontongue, last boss) WHILE keeping people alive, it seems that by your mentality, it is perfectly fine for me to randomly decide that throwing that 20% down the toilet and extending the content duration by 5-8mins is cool, simply because it's not my 'primary' responsibility (Healing). However, it is everyone's responsibility to get targets dead - and it just so happens that damage is the primary resource for this, which EVERYONE can contribute to.

Having played BRD a lot lately, it's not my responsibility to manage a Healer's MP, yet I met one today who was crying for Refresh on that pre-last-boss pack. Is it OK for me to deny party-buffs because some might hinder my own DPS (which is my responsibility as BRD)?

TLDR - Stop assuming the topic rotates around Healers covering for other people. This is not the case at all.

[Cynfael]

Snip

Please refer to the previous god-only-knows-how-many-pages of this and similar threads for reasons why healing expectations for tank and DPS roles cannot and should not be compared to reasonable DPS expectations of the healer role. Also refer to almost any page for reasons why none of this is about picking up slack.

[Sebazy]

Yes. But SCH, the "DPS" healer, was nerfed into the ground at the start of the expac. They only went back when people basically stopped playing it. So, yeah, right now SCH can DPS just fine but that's clearly a bandaid. They took redid CS to keep people from forcing healers into DPSing if they don't want to. Yoshi-P said that himself and they nerfed SCH DPS. Where exactly do you think the train's heading, huh?

Heya.

Going to go slightly offtrack here, but I think you misunderstand the situation that SCH's found themselves in at the release of SB.

SCH's DPS was combination of 3 problems:

The nerfs to the Arcanist DPS kit that were aimed at SMN actually hit SCH far harder.

SCH lost a dot to the dot merger like every other healer.

SCH also lost out massively via role actions, both Blizzard II and Aero were significant losses to their DPS kit.

When combined, these issues snowballed leaving SCH in the same situation that AST is in pre Gravity. Doing Dungeons and other mainstream content without any viable source of spammable AoE flat out sucks. It's just horrible.

Was this an intentional nerf to SCH? I say no, I'm knocking on the door of 4K DPS in expert as WHM and AST isn't half bad either. I firmly believe that the class team for SB had little to no interest or knowledge about the healing jobs and as such, they just didn't realise that SCH's AoE potential would get absolutely obliterated in the way that it did. Miasma II getting returned back to SCH was an long overdue olive branch that should have been there from release.

Not really got much to say about your Cleric stance commentary other than 'you're wrong'. Go watch the Stormblood live letter or look up any of his interviews on the subject. He hated the ability because it was an anchor around the average players neck.

You are a unicorn. As in, I've never had a rdm help me with raises. Even when both healers are dead.

Just because you don't see something, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Instead, consider that you might need to pay more attention.

If DPS checks are not being met, DPS needs to take a hard look at their own numbers and stop replying on healers as a crutch to push numbers.

What would you propose you do when you hit a point where they can't feasibly do any more DPS with the experience, ability and gear that they have? All manner of teams find themselves asking this question, it most certainly isn't a situation that's exclusive to hardcore teams on early progression.

[Vyriah]

Shinryu Ex

Yeah, healer DPS on Shinryu, entry level kind of shit. Wonder why those guys don't do DPS on that high, constant healing requierement fight with a mechanic especially designed to draining healer MP.
Those player arn't lazy, they're certainly struggling with the fight. I wouldn't be surprised that most of them just do low DPS because they're focusing too much on mechanics. I dropped SCH for that fight because I was doing the other way arround : trying to DPS only to lose the flow of the fight.

That asks for more awareness than extra DPS anyway. Nothing surprising. Same thing happens on O4S where healer DPS tend to became much lower.
Still about how the game is design, not how the other are doing. The only reason you're telling me this is because you're using a parser, something that's not originally suported by the game. If you're using it to improve yourself good for you. If you're using it to monitor the other player, you're wrong anyway.

If you're farming wolf, echo and stronger gear is gonna make that fight a joke anyway. I'm not sure why anyone is bothering with this yet.

[Jollyy5]

Wonder why those guys don't do DPS on that high, constant healing requierement fight with a mechanic especially designed to draining healer MP.

Now that you mention it, many of those said co-healers aren't using their mana recovery skills correctly.

You'd be surprised how many WHMs seem to be unaware that Thin Air is a thing, for example.

[Tridus]

Why is this the only game in which I see everyone expecting a HEALING class to help push DPS numbers?

Because this is the only game where raw healing requirements are so small that healers have boatloads of free time. There's a Xelphatol run that was recorded where the healer was healing 18% of the time. The amount of content where you can spend long periods being totally idle without endangering anyone is huge.

Healers are expected to push DPS because the primary alternative is doing absolutely nothing. And yeah, players who are actively contributing to the group are being reasonable when they expect us to do the same thing.

We don't have the tools in this game to spec a "DPS Healer".

Sebazy on trash might disagree. WHM can speed up a dungeon run dramatically with a fairly basic DPS contribution because Holy is amazing. Sneaking DoTs and a stone or three on a boss is usually pretty doable. Nobody's asking for world beating DPS here. They're asking for "don't stand around doing nothing."

Nor do we have the tools to make a "Tank Healer", that makes sense right? I don't see anyone complaining PLD isn't contributing enough healing because that is ridiculous.

No, but they were pretty glad when our healer died early and I healed an entire boss fight in Doma Castle with Clemency instead of just giving up and wiping because tanks aren't expected to heal. The button is there. Sometimes you should use it. That goes for every button on every role in the game. Good team players use their entire kit to the best of their ability to help clear the encounter, they don't complain that "X isn't my job!"

Expecting a healer (whom you don't even know the experience of) to be pushing DPS just to satisfy your standard (that you made up, not SE) that seems just as ridiculous.

Nobody has ever advocated picking on newbies. If you're in Ex or Savage (the only content with enrages), you're not a newbie anymore, and yeah, you should carry your own weight.

This game relies heavily on the holy trinity of very distinct roles, I honestly don't understand all the backlash.

Feel free to read the pages and pages of what came before to help you understand. Or the 100 page thread before this one. There's no lack of explanations.

If DPS checks are not being met, DPS needs to take a hard look at their own numbers and stop replying on healers as a crutch to push numbers.

When content is new, groups usually don't meet the ilvl requirement to clear it. YoshiP himself has said that in that situation healer DPS is necessary to make up the difference. That's just cold, hard math. Don't like it? Tell SE to not make the game the way they do. So long as enrage timers are tight on progression content and healers have tons of idle time, they're going to expected to fill that time with something productive. You know, the same standard every other role is held to. Or are you okay with a tank who hits Flash six times to get hate, then stands still and does nothing? DPS is not their job, after all.

[Sebazy]

Sebazy on trash might disagree. WHM can speed up a dungeon run dramatically with a fairly basic DPS contribution because Holy is amazing. Sneaking DoTs and a stone or three on a boss is usually pretty doable. Nobody's asking for world beating DPS here. They're asking for "don't stand around doing nothing."

I was this close to replying to that with a log link

[Avatre]

No, but they were pretty glad when our healer died early and I healed an entire boss fight in Doma Castle with Clemency instead of just giving up and wiping because tanks aren't expected to heal. The button is there. Sometimes you should use it. That goes for every button on every role in the game. Good team players use their entire kit to the best of their ability to help clear the encounter, they don't complain that "X isn't my job!"

This right here is why I always DPS when I can as a healer, and heal when required as a PLD/RDM. Wiping typically costs more time than helping out with other roles duties.

Tanking a boss for the last 30-40% after everyone has died, making it so you didn't have to wipe(or starting a boss fight without a tank because the tank left at the start of the dungeon and a replacement hadn't shown up - Diurnal AST, with a sprout DRG and can't remember other DPS in Fractal), while keeping yourself alive(admittedly, this was as a DRK in Keeper of the Lake) is a fun challenge and shows the diversity or each class, and survivability of each when using the whole kit.

[miraidensetsu]

And have you even tried popping Cleric Stance -> DoTs -> Bane -> Miasma II -> Shadow Flare -> Miasma II spam in a dungeon on a big group of mobs until everything is dead? That BLM is crying some of the saltiest tears as you are whooping their buttocks in DPS.

OMG! Now a Scholar rotation can outDPS even a proper rotation from BLM doing something like Blizzard III > Enochian > Blizzard IV > Thunder IV > Fire III > Fire II x 2 > Flare x 2 > Transpose > Repeat from Blizzard IV while keeping Foul on CD.