The mentor system needs to be reevaulated.

[Melondra]

aaaa yes one of the many things i loved about FFXI Massive banning as in 12-15,000 players a week banned. Mentor system in that game was also very difficult to acquire as well, you needed quite a few gameplay hours to become one, they were very few mentors on that game but they were all fantastic mentors. The system needs over-hauled because the problem has been going on way to long. There are however some great mentors in this game, However, there are more bad then good at this point, and the issue needs to be resolved by more stringent punishment, suspensions would be a great start followed by permanent bans.

[Wolf_Heartnet]

You sure like to twist words to fit your personal narrative. You would have to be completely blind to not see that the mentor system is not functioning like it should, like i mentioned previously this is not a new issue. Asking for a current in-game system to be reevaluated doesn't not translate into "There are a ton of bad mentors out there" It means that what my friend was subjected to by members of the community that are supposed to act as guides for new players should have never happened by someone upholding the mentor status.

There is no twisting of words. It is simply the truth. Heres the problem not only does ur topic title says theres bad mentors in it, you believe that that system is so flawed that you made the claim that the system is not functioning as it should. To where I have already told you that was simply not my experience. You even told me yourself "Just because you personally havent seen or experienced something doesn't mean it doesn't happen." therefore just because you believe the system is flawed based on anecdotal experiences does not mean the system does not work. You have become fixated on being right at this point and it seems like you're throwing logic out the window.

Yes jerks will be jerks, rude people will be rude ect. ect. This is not about random players, this is about Mentors. The only thing im asking is that they look into how their current mentor system is ran in-game and do whatever they can to make it that others that come to the game do not go through what she did. All I'm trying to do is raise awareness of a issue.

If you can recognize that jerks can be jerks then you need to recognize that no system is going to be perfect. End of story. If I were to make the safest car in the world with 1 million happy drivers never having an issue but see a total of 3 accidents in 5 years of this vehicles existence, It doesn't mean that we need to change it or ban the vehicle from public use.

I have no desire to argue with you and I have no ill will towards you. So I wish you can talk to me without having to attack my character.

[SenorPatty]

There's something that no one has clarified here.

The mentor system works as intended, just not globally.

In japan, the mentor system works as intended because of japan's culture. There are far more...sucess stories (for a better lack of word) than there is bad one.

The mentor system for NA/EU doesn't work here because of our culture. We're too individualistic and no thanks in part due to the reward associated with it, some are in it just for that. And so you find that there's basically 3 types of mentors here in NA/EU:

-The ones that really want to be mentors and the rewards are an afterthough
-The ones who are in it just for the reward but take heed not to involve themselves too much with the mentoring.
-The ones who are in it just for the reward and take pleasure in abusing the system.

The issue here is #2 & #3 outnumber #1. Unfortunately, this is something YoshiP fails to acknowledge properly because changing that very system would be equal to admitting that NA/EU makes the system look bad in comparison to JPN. Actually reworking the system properly to fit with out culture sends the message that we're too selfish of a community and the mentor system need policing. That's not something SE would dip their hands into if possible and thus would rather encourage reporting so they can deal with situations like these accordingly.

Its unfortunate what happened to Selova's friend and, mentor or no mentor, no one should ever treat someone like that. But we are 4? years into the game and this coming february will make the mentor system 2 years old. Despite the continual feedback that mentor system is not generally working as intended in NA/EU up until now, YoshiP has maintained the position of captain of the sinking ship steadfastly and I believe he'll continue to do so until the Japanese community makes the same noise as we do.

[Hugowulf]

I agree with everything patty said. Though from my experience people people don’t have to have a Burger King crown to be toxic. It’s just noticed more.

[Selova]

snip.

I passed this post along to her, and both her and I competely agree 100%. Hit the nail right on the head.

[cheolsu]

it needs to have rankings based on commendations. anybody can be a jerk, but the problem is you don't expect mentors to be jerks. you can ignore non-mentors. well, if there were 5 ranks say, and you decide you don't want to take advice from anybody but the top 2 ranks, then you could ignore the other mentors just as easily as non-mentors (it wouldn't surprise or hurt you). i imagine the ranks showing as different colored crowns like karate belts

penalizing is a bad idea in general. people aren't going to give commendations just because you tank (for example) if you're a jerk tank. so while not perfect, commendations is probably the best way to sort mentors out. no need to penalize

oh, and i agree: i see more bad mentors than good

[Aethaeryn]

Despite the continual feedback that mentor system is not generally working as intended in NA/EU up until now, YoshiP has maintained the position of captain of the sinking ship

Or maybe it's because Yoshida understands that only a tiny fraction of players use the forums or reddit, and people are far more likely to come complain about bad experiences than come here to praise the good ones. If there were really so many bad mentors that the system is doing more bad than good, I'm sure they would try to find a way to change things.

[Miste]

The mentor system works as intended, just not globally.

In japan, the mentor system works as intended because of japan's culture. There are far more...sucess stories (for a better lack of word) than there is bad one.

The mentor system for NA/EU doesn't work here because of our culture.

-The ones that really want to be mentors and the rewards are an afterthough
-The ones who are in it just for the reward but take heed not to involve themselves too much with the mentoring.
-The ones who are in it just for the reward and take pleasure in abusing the system.

The issue here is #2 & #3 outnumber #1.

So where are you getting the statistics or data for these claims? Just wondering....cause you can't claim that stuff as fact based on your own personal experience or opinions.

Using your number system I quoted here... you simply can't use personal anecdotes or the forum alone to judge how many #2 or #3 mentors there are. So how do you know they outnumber #1 in NA/EU and how do you know JP has a better percentage of good mentors? Where are the statistics for it?

[SenorPatty]

So where are you getting the statistics or data for these claims? Just wondering....cause you can't claim that stuff as fact based on your own personal experience or opinions.

Using your number system I quoted here... you simply can't use personal anecdotes or the forum alone to judge how many #2 or #3 mentors there are. So how do you know they outnumber #1 in NA/EU and how do you know JP has a better percentage of good mentors? Where are the statistics for it?

I can't provide statistics because there's never been a venue to convert feedback into percentages when it comes to the mentor system. If there was, I would've given some numbers. A lot of feedback concerning various features in the game is like that too: information you can't convert into hard numbers.

With that out of the way, the "proof" based on cultural differences, the articles I've read regarding gaming cultural differences and the likes. To narrow it down, the culture of "upperclassman/underclassman". This trickles even into video games with multiplayer aspects. In NA/EU, the mentor system's reward first incenses our individualistic culture for the reward and as such, we are not really beholden to mentor altruistically. While its already a given that a culture is not the complete, 100% representation of everyone that's part it, it is representative of the majority. So if we go by that:

-Reason #2 would actually be more valid than #1 and #3. The goal of the mount comes first, then helping other people. If they can get by without putting themselves out too much, they will.
-Reason #3 is a subset of reason #2, with conflict-seeking behavior.

I can't provide video evidence or even a documentary to tell you that's how it is or even secretly snatch data somehow from SE's reports on mentor system but if I absolutely had to give you some form of quantifiable data, it would be based off that.

Or maybe it's because Yoshida understands that only a tiny fraction of players use the forums or reddit, and people are far more likely to come complain about bad experiences than come here to praise the good ones. If there were really so many bad mentors that the system is doing more bad than good, I'm sure they would try to find a way to change things.

As with all things when it concerns feedback, there will never be more from the online public discussions than those inside the game. Furthermore, that's our human nature. We complain because we want things to be better. When Yoshida or other SE representatives come down and tell us they want feedback, we give them in these two part points:

-This (insert issue) is not working right because of X (the complaint)
-Please do X instead (the suggestion)

Now as to whether or not Yoshida wants to address these issues is, well, the other issue. I will give you one part of the caveat here because I've already mentioned it somewhat: Because the system works mostly favorably for one side, its not something he would touch carelessly, especially since the mentorship system is not like some technical QoL that's affecting players. It's very, heavy player to player feature and thus, unless it becomes a global problem, he will most likely remain where he is on that issue.

[NephthysVasudan]

<snip>

Step 1: File a harassment report.
Step 2: Discuss with GM
Step 3: Problem Solved by GM.

Seriously.. SE does not like hearing new players griping about bad treatment by mentors. You want this solved? You get GM's involved.

I've been doing this every time I find a mentor who thinks he's "all dat" and mouths off to players. GM's take this very seriously.