The mentor system needs to be reevaulated.

[Miste]

With that out of the way, the "proof" based on cultural differences, the articles I've read regarding gaming cultural differences and the likes.

So in other words...you read random gaming articles which made you form your opinion....and yes it is only your opinion.

Random gaming articles that you happen to read does not give factual proof that in FFXIV NA/EU has a lot less good mentors than JP or vice versa. So again, you can't claim you somehow know that bad mentors outnumber the good ones in NA/EU or that JP has a higher percentage of good mentors. No one has access to any kind of statistical data to make such a claim...except maybe SE since they have access to all chatlogs etc.

[Legion88]

Hm...yeah...i think it's about time to reevaluate the mentorsystem.
I will list some things what i like and dislike from the current mentor system and what i wish a mentor system could offer.

Novice Network
I think the only really good system from the current mentor system is the novice network.
I don't know how it is on other servers, but on Cerberus it is more or less ruled by a handful of competent and helpful players.
The usual chatter is friendly and helpful, questions are answered in short time with helpful advises and friendly teachings.
No matter if you are a mentor, a returner or a beginner, all get help as they wish from all players who can and are willing to help, so it is no surprise when a beginner has a helpful advise for a mentor in specific questions.
So the Cerberus novice networks seems to work like intended. So i would like to keep this in the reevaluated mentor system.

Mentor Roulette
What i really don't like is the mentor roulette and more the special shiny rewards locked behind them.
In my eyes this is like corruption and draws in many bad apples only seeking the rewards and not careing for the system in itself.
Also i wouldn't mind to remove the forced mentor symbol in the duty, especially because it is not a roulette prioritizing beginners or first timers but is just a filler roulette to pop any duty queue.
I also wouldn't mind to open it to all players, even nonmentors, if they have the requirements of 1 job of every role able to queue for the highest listed duty.
Then you can lock such shiny rewards behind that roulette but not in combination with the mentor system.

The Crowns
The Crowns are really missleading and don't really have a deeper meaning of if the mentor is really competend in the displayed category or if it's just his favorite, also crowns are to shiny and will draw in people just looking for the shiny thing.
So the Crown should be replaced with a watering can.
The next problem is you can get mentorship by two ways but you will get every mentor symbol for either way.
So the change should include different ways to obtain mentorship and also obtaining the different types of mentorship.
So as example for the general mentorship symbol you only have to become mentor or you get it any way you can become mentor.
For the crafting mentor symbol you need to fullfil the crafting requirements to obtain this symbol.
For PvE mentor symbol you need the PvE way of becoming mentor and for PvP a special PvP requirement.
With this changes you can be sure the mentor you are talking to really knows what he is talking about and not just showing the symbol because it pleases him the most but has no clue about the category it shows.

Personal Mentor
A mentor should be able to take students or pupil, maybe up to 3.
Also he should get the ability to sync him down to the level of his pupil or sync down the whole party of his pupil to the level of one of one of the pupils in the party.
This would give the mentor the advantage to be in the party of his pupil, provide the mentor bonus and don't lock the pupil out of gaining experience because his level is to high.
Also the mentor should provide a special mentor bonus to its pupil.
So he provides the normal mentor bonus without level restriction to its pupil in the party but also provides the half of it outside as long as he is online, only requirement, the pupil has to be on a lower level on that job as the mentor is.
Depending of mentor symbol the mentor is using the bonus gets shifted and boosted.
For basic mentor symbol the bonus will be covering all ways of gaining experience.
For crafting mentor symbol the bonus will be only covering experience for crafting, gathering and corresponding quests and level quests but is stronger then the basic.
For PvE mentor symbol will be only covering experience for DoW/DoM and corresponding quests and leve quests but is stronger then the basic.
And the PvP mentor symbol will be only covering PvP experience and experience from PvP but is stronger then the basic.

Punishing Mentors
At the moment it is more or less realtively lax of punishment against mentors.
They can du more or less what they want and get no punishment, especially if they do it in the novice network.
Novice network has to stop to be a grey area where no GM is interfering.
Also mentors should be hold to the rules they accepted by accepting the mentorship.
It is heartbreaking to see mentors acting like they are god and giving out wrong informations to beginners just for fun and giggles.
Mentors should also get their mentorship revoked in addition to any disciplinary measurement.

So this is my "wishlist" for a reevaluated mentor system.

[Tridus]

Step 1: File a harassment report.
Step 2: Discuss with GM
Step 3: Problem Solved by GM.

Who are the people least likely to know both that they can do that, and how?

A: New players.

GMs only get involved after the problem has happened and if someone knows to file a report. That's not any kind of useful protection for new players since they're the least likely to know they can do that and the most likely to think a bad mentor is representative of the game (because first impressions matter).

Seriously.. SE does not like hearing new players griping about bad treatment by mentors. You want this solved? You get GM's involved.

I've been doing this every time I find a mentor who thinks he's "all dat" and mouths off to players. GM's take this very seriously.

Do they actually do anything about it? Saying they take it seriously in chat and taking concrete action are very different things.

[Tridus]

So in other words...you read random gaming articles which made you form your opinion....and yes it is only your opinion.

Random gaming articles that you happen to read does not give factual proof that in FFXIV NA/EU has a lot less good mentors than JP or vice versa. So again, you can't claim you somehow know that bad mentors outnumber the good ones in NA/EU or that JP has a higher percentage of good mentors. No one has access to any kind of statistical data to make such a claim...except maybe SE since they have access to all chatlogs etc.

No one can say the mentor system has positive outcomes in NA/EU either, because there's no data at all except that "mentors are toxic" is practically a meme at this point, which is what leads people like Sebazy to not want to even show the mentor crown. And that's really, really unfortunate for the good mentors who get unfairly maligned because of the dolts among them.

That's a pretty substantial problem. The perception is that the system doesn't work. In the absence of SE giving us hard data, that perception is going to stand as reality. The number of mentors who are only there because they want easy rewards from the roulette and will either bail or turn into raging jerks if they need to, you know, mentor people is a huge problem. The lack of a real tool for the community to do anything about it (except file a report and hope that it doesn't go into the GM abyss) is a problem.

Fundamentally, the system needs a rethink, starting with what the objective is. If the goal is to provide people to help out newbies and cast the game in a positive light, it is absolutely not doing that effectively right now.

[Miste]

No one can say the mentor system has positive outcomes in NA/EU either, because there's no data at all except that "mentors are toxic" is practically a meme at this point, which is what leads people like Sebazy to not want to even show the mentor crown. And that's really, really unfortunate for the good mentors who get unfairly maligned because of the dolts among them.

I never said you can claim it is positive. I just said that no one can claim anything like that as fact and it was in response to what someone else was trying to claim with no data to back it up.

If I were to go on my personal experiences...."mentors are toxic" isn't what I encountered personally. I encountered the opposite of "non-mentor players were toxic to mentors" for no reason. I don't mind wearing my crown since I never saw very many issues with other mentors, sure there were a few bad ones here and there but mostly I saw good or at least decent. So obviously people can have very different personal experiences on the matter.

Everyone's personal experiences differ so the meme of "mentors are toxic" might have come about due to certain player's personal experiences, but it could possibly also simply be a "toxic players are toxic" problem and said player would have been toxic even if in an alternate universe they didn't even have the crown on when they behaved as such.

I just personally don't believe that a tiny pixel crown icon turns normally nice players into toxic ones so the mentor system itself isn't really the problem since toxic players will be toxic whenever and however they want...not having a little pixel crown by their name isn't going to stop them.

The only thing SE can do would be to punish people more severely for obvious trolling/harassment which would be a good idea, but they aren't going to be able to properly filter out people who shouldn't be mentors without spending money on having a specific subset of GMs entirely devoted to making sure only mentors who deserve the crown get to have it and police the system.

How many have the perception that the system really doesn't work at all though? Because sure on the forums it has become a meme about mentors being toxic...but what does that mean in the big picture? The forums is where a lot of people come to complain about things...look how big the tales from the DF thread is. We seem to have a lot more fun complaining about the horror stories than we do gushing about the good runs where nothing goes wrong. So I wonder how many "good mentor" stories simply were never shared and maybe the forum is skewed on its perception due to the amount of "bad mentor" stories which are way more fun to complain about and share.

[Synrin]

To me, a mentor crown next to a player's name is an indicator that there is a 95% chance that they are a total asshat of a person/player.

[Sebazy]

It’s not that the crown turns people toxic, rather that I certainly hold them to a higher standard than I would any other eandom I come across. When I see a regular joe playing at a 3rd of their potential I roll my eyes and deal with it. When I see a mentor doing the same, it saddens me because at best, they are showing others that this is an ‘acceptable’ standard.

This is before we get to the borderline trolls such as the one who posts various drivel here.

Viewing mentors as a meme pretty much hits thhe nail on the head for me. It’s a shame as it shouldn’t be that way. I don’t expect mentors to be 90 percentile superstars, but I do expect them to be at least well grounded, courteous and respectful.

[Stanelis]

I think what need to be reevaluated is the stigmatization of mentors by players too lazy to stand up and do something to help new players.

It’s not that the crown turns people toxic, rather that I certainly hold them to a higher standard than I would any other eandom I come across. When I see a regular joe playing at a 3rd of their potential I roll my eyes and deal with it. When I see a mentor doing the same, it saddens me because at best, they are showing others that this is an ‘acceptable’ standard.

I don't think you understand what a mentor is. A mentor isn't here to be an example or to make great players out of beginner. A mentor is here to provide help to new players, should such a player request it.

It isn't about being good or bad, it is about willing to be helpful. Additionally, a mentor isn't here to make your PUG runs go faster or to automatically lead them, it is a misunderstanding of the purpose of the system.

[NephthysVasudan]

<snip>

I think you are not entirely correct.

Based on GM interactions I've had....you put a crown on....your expected to represent the the best that FFXIV has to offer to new players. You mouth off...you misbehave in any fashion that would make this game "not fun" to a sprout... your on a GM's hitlist once reported.

don't like it? Take the damn crown off.....that simple.

Mentors are there to teach/to help/to aid [new players of course].

No more...no less.

[Stanelis]

I think you are not entirely correct.

Based on GM interactions I've had....you put a crown on....your expected to represent the the best that FFXIV has to offer to new players. You mouth off...you misbehave in any fashion that would make this game "not fun" to a sprout... your on a GM's hitlist once reported.

The best of FFXIV has to offer =/= incredibly skilled player able to solo O4S while being in the 99th percentile

The best of FFXIV has to offer = a decent individual ( with no link to actual player performance)

I was reacting to morons expecting mentors to be incredibly skilled. Rampant elitism is the issue here, and this toxicity has nothing to do with having a crown or not.