/Accuse @ the devs: have you set us up to fail...?

[Vstarstruck]

Reading through all the topics on this board - not just this one, but all the other ones where the definition of a 'bad player' seems to slide from "someone who doesn't knowtheir basic skills and/or isn't trying" to "someone who clears the dungeon in 30 minutes instead of 20" and it's disheartening. (Arguably a reason for them to bring in a parse/rating/whatever, because I don't know if I'm good or bad compared to the 'average' player or what standard I should be held to, but I hate to think I'm failing and not be able to know it.)

The other thing is, how do you give the healer more to do? Honest question, because I don't know what you're picturing. What is there other than making enemies hit harder so the healer has more work?

And in the case of Scholar, it could be just that they haven't been properly balanced to function in a low-level dungeon. If they can only get away with it up to the low 30s, that's the point at which Scholar properly exists and isn't being modified for a level below their 'starting point'. Plus I imagine it depends on the skill level of the rest of the party.

Anyway the correct answer is, not needing to heal doesn't mean you can go AFK but gives you more time to support the party by DPSing, casting Esuna, etc. and keeping an eye on everyone's HP. Things can always go wrong.

I think the issue here is you do not know how to see what we are talking about in other players. For example, do you find it fair that someone can cheat the ilevel requirement to enter a place that requests ilevel 300 average, bringing a 285 weapon when you are given a 290 weapon from the job quest at 70? Also the job quest gives an important ability to most. In the case this is referenced to, it was BLM, who NEEDS foul to be effective to clear AoE trash in a timely matter and still important on bosses to help with up time because server tics can screw you over. Can you understand why people might be upset seeing a player set foot in the last 4 man dungeon and not have your level 70 ability?

We are not talking about YOU being bad or not trying hard enough. We are talking about people that LITERALLY press 1 button throughout the run, people that use pure ST when there are 5 monsters or more in a group, among other very low bar expectations. There are some dungeons a SCH can literally AFK a whole run and not do anything, though people that care just dps. if you are fining yourself at a 25+ minute run with you trying, it is likely you are running into DPS that we are talking about. Even if ONE DPS is salvage pushing buttons like a mad woman, it still will be a 20-30 min run if the co dps is what we are talking about. In fact, a few people i know stopped solo queuing as healer for this very reason, meeting 2 bad dps is too much of a risk. For them waiting for queue as they do other things and have a 14-20 min runs is better then 20-30. That is another reason why experienced players can see it so easily. You can say this logic takes place:

"HMMM I WONDER whos fault it is, if i can get in run A, do 14 min run, then run B see a 30 minute run while the blm is only using ice spells. It is very easy to see without a parser."

For your last thing we know that but most people do not put in that effort that you meet randomly using the duty finder.

No idea where Elemental data center is, but shame I do not know anyone there. I def know people that can have a general idea how you are doing without a parser though.

[Iscah]

I think the issue here is you do not know how to see what we are talking about in other players. For example, do you find it fair that someone can cheat the ilevel requirement to enter a place that requests ilevel 300 average, bringing a 285 weapon when you are given a 290 weapon from the job quest at 70?

That's a loaded question, I think - if the game lets you do it, it's not cheating, and it's up to the devs to set different minimum requirements if that player shouldn't be there. Otherwise you'll get new people coming in with that equipment by honest mistake, having no idea there is a higher standard expected of them by other players than what the game itself has set.

I honestly haven't even paid attention to how long dungeons take. And I only notice other people doing strange things if it's out of combat (tank casting Convalescence at the start of the encounter when I'm healing; DPS running ahead when I'm tanking) or it's affecting me directly (debuffs not getting Esuna'd; tank makes the boss move unnecessarily while I try to melee it). In combat I'm too busy concentrating on my own actions to notice others' - and generally if I do, that means I'm not paying attention and my own performance is suffering, or I forgot to pay attention to something more important like my own HP bar. I'm only just getting the hang of watching the enemy's cast bar and not just looking for floor AoE markers.

No idea where Elemental data center is, but shame I do not know anyone there. I def know people that can have a general idea how you are doing without a parser though.

Elemental data centre is in Japan. (I'm from Australia.) I guess I could see if some of my FC friends are using parsers.

Also I only thought of it after my previous post, but I'm leveling astrologian currently, and when I get low-level dungeons with that I'm probably playing 90% DPS outside of boss battles. So Scholar's faerie just fills in that little gap. (And I guess Tam-Tara in particular doesn't really have mid-dungeon boss battles? Just those imp mobs and then the Soulcounters which aren't that tough.) Ultimately those early dungeons are built for the difficulty level of someone who could have not even played a game before, or only started this one yesterday, and it's fair enough that a practiced player can do it with minimal effort by comparison.