/Accuse @ the devs: have you set us up to fail...?

[Lelila38]

Part of the issue, too, is the vocal group of players that claw about for harder and harder content despite it blocking off the casual playerbase. But we can't think of the casuals as the one's who just spam 2 or 3 skills without a care. That's not the average player. And anyone into FFXIV enough to use the forum isn't a "casual" player either. We need to keep that in mind.

Did you not read what we've been repeatedly saying in this thread? Noone is asking to "block off" the casuals. We're asking for difficulty to gradually increase as we level up, thus slowly leading us up to endgame level, as in expert dungeons. ex trials and savage should remain optional, but people should generally be closer to being ready for that kind of stuff, when they hit max lvl. We're asking for bosses to do mechanics that actually matter and you have to execute instead of ignoring them.
I feel there should be a general order of things that lead you into savage raids if you wish to do it. Leveling dungeons < max lvl dungeons (end of mandatory stuff) < story mode 8 man raid < 24 man < ex trials < savage. But since they opened all the restrictions on them, basically everyone can just jump into high end content, without being ready for it, which leads to frustration on both sides, the player not ready failing and/or getting kicked and the players who are actually ready getting the feeling the playerbase got worse, when they actually just were poorly prepared for the content they attempted.

[RiyahArp]

All that would do is just make endgame even more barren than it is now. Savage isn't fun for the playerbase, when will people get this through their heads? trying to funnel people into it by making the game harder is helping no one; it just means instead of not doing endgame, people wont bother to reach it. Ugh, farming ex trials is tedious and boring, you want to make expert a similar pain?

[Oscura]

Ugh, farming ex trials is tedious and boring, you want to make expert a similar pain?

Expert is already boring, so they're already similar.

[RiyahArp]

Expert is already boring, so they're already similar.

I don't have to spend ages in party finder hoping that one person doesn't wipe the group, and we disband. I'm not restricted to playing only one job because my ilvl is too low on the others, and I can't practice it (because expert is the only real place to practice a 70 job in a decent settin, short of story raids, and we all know thats next on the chopping block). EX trials are tedious jokes, and many people just wait to overgear them if they do them. No one will do that for hard expert, theyd just make pvp the number one activity to get tomes.

[Oscura]

I don't have to spend ages in party finder hoping that one person doesn't wipe the group, and we disband. I'm not restricted to playing only one job because my ilvl is too low on the others, and I can't practice it (because expert is the only real place to practice a 70 job in a decent settin, short of story raids, and we all know thats next on the chopping block). EX trials are tedious jokes, and many people just wait to overgear them if they do them. No one will do that for hard expert, theyd just make pvp the number one activity to get tomes.

I was simply making a joke that expert is already boring as it is. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[KaivaC]

All that would do is just make endgame even more barren than it is now. Savage isn't fun for the playerbase, when will people get this through their heads? trying to funnel people into it by making the game harder is helping no one; it just means instead of not doing endgame, people wont bother to reach it. Ugh, farming ex trials is tedious and boring, you want to make expert a similar pain?

Wrong...Savage isn't fun for you.

Honestly, the comments you are replying to are not suggesting starting taking things up to Savage mode immediately. No, it shouldn't be that way. But after story content, Hard mode dungeons should actually feel like hard mode dungeons. At this time, the Aurum Vale, Pharos Sirius, and Stone Vigil in their current iterations have more challenge to them than say, Shisui of the Violent Tides (don't get me wrong, i love this dungeon). Yes, level sync plays a role in them, but they're still challenging because you can't faceroll them easily with PUGs. But the content does need to start getting harder, to encourage and prepare players to go into Savage fights.

Hard mode dungeons are optional - so gradually make them harder. It isn't like players don't have the tools to survive. But at some point, the casual player base needs to start stepping up their game. As much as Yoshi P and the devs try to close the skill gap, it won't happen as long as players continue to get by with faceroll content. You could give players the same hotbars that PVP has, and you'll still find that one BLM who only uses Thunder, or that RDM who somehow finds a way to only hardcast Verthunder.

[Gleipni]

Wrong...Savage isn't fun for you.Hard mode dungeons are optional - so gradually make them harder. It isn't like players don't have the tools to survive. But at some point, the casual player base needs to start stepping up their game. As much as Yoshi P and the devs try to close the skill gap, it won't happen as long as players continue to get by with faceroll content. You could give players the same hotbars that PVP has, and you'll still find that one BLM who only uses Thunder, or that RDM who somehow finds a way to only hardcast Verthunder.

As he said,at some point,dev can try to close the gap,but if casual( and by casual,i mean people who and do an effort and complain they are kicked out of hard content) people dont make an effort,its pointless and we will end up with a tasteless game

[RiyahArp]

Wrong...Savage isn't fun for you.

Savage at best has under 10% completion, and at worst 1% on most NA servers if you count the whole history of it. people don't even bother recruiting fresh 70s to try it, like in other games; in FFXI as soon as you hit 70 people often invited you to do Sky. You either try to do it with random strangers, or you advertise in PF hoping some static will pick you up and its not too late in the raid cycle to try. If you look in your data center's PF, you can often find one or no learning parties for each turn. The amount of salt over it is epic. You can tell me its fun all you want, but if you take a hard look in game, its obviously not.

Trying to make the rest of the game like it in baby steps is just going to make it more of a pain.

[KaivaC]

snip

If you are going to post numbers, link a source. All you are doing right now is saying numbers without evidence. I can easily do that. 75% of all players who have entered Shinryu Ex have cleared at least once. Is it true? Probably not. Won't matter without evidence to prove it. I didn't mention anything about me saying it is fun...in fact, I pointedly said that you in particular don't find it fun. I didn't realize that you spoke for the majority of the player base. I never made any mention on my level of enjoyment for those fights.

PS: For the record, I do find the fights fun...just to clear that up.

Do tell how the game that progressively gets tougher in completely optional Hard Mode dungeons is going to make it more of a pain. I'd love to hear the details of how fun and utterly asinine it would be to actually get players to start playing at level 70 content (lvl 80 in a couple years, likely). You know, just as how you would progress in normal FF games...or even in other MMOs.

[Lelila38]

All that would do is just make endgame even more barren than it is now. Savage isn't fun for the playerbase, when will people get this through their heads? trying to funnel people into it by making the game harder is helping no one; it just means instead of not doing endgame, people wont bother to reach it. Ugh, farming ex trials is tedious and boring, you want to make expert a similar pain?

We're not trying to funnel people into it, it's entirely optional. And saying it's boring is a generalisation, for me it's the most fun thing to do and I know a lot of others who think the same. To me, Pvp is the most boring thing, but I don't tell people who like it to remove it just cause I'm not enjoying it, to each their own

Again NOONE IS ASKING FOR PERFECTION, just a general knowledge of your class and the willingness to improve and contribute would be appreciated.