/Accuse @ the devs: have you set us up to fail...?

[NephthysVasudan]

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Where in the hell did you come up with this crap?

Seriously....where is your source....this is a very bad troll in poor taste.

[KaivaC]

All that would do is just make endgame even more barren than it is now. Savage isn't fun for the playerbase, when will people get this through their heads? trying to funnel people into it by making the game harder is helping no one; it just means instead of not doing endgame, people wont bother to reach it. Ugh, farming ex trials is tedious and boring, you want to make expert a similar pain?

Wrong...Savage isn't fun for you.

Honestly, the comments you are replying to are not suggesting starting taking things up to Savage mode immediately. No, it shouldn't be that way. But after story content, Hard mode dungeons should actually feel like hard mode dungeons. At this time, the Aurum Vale, Pharos Sirius, and Stone Vigil in their current iterations have more challenge to them than say, Shisui of the Violent Tides (don't get me wrong, i love this dungeon). Yes, level sync plays a role in them, but they're still challenging because you can't faceroll them easily with PUGs. But the content does need to start getting harder, to encourage and prepare players to go into Savage fights.

Hard mode dungeons are optional - so gradually make them harder. It isn't like players don't have the tools to survive. But at some point, the casual player base needs to start stepping up their game. As much as Yoshi P and the devs try to close the skill gap, it won't happen as long as players continue to get by with faceroll content. You could give players the same hotbars that PVP has, and you'll still find that one BLM who only uses Thunder, or that RDM who somehow finds a way to only hardcast Verthunder.

[Gleipni]

Wrong...Savage isn't fun for you.Hard mode dungeons are optional - so gradually make them harder. It isn't like players don't have the tools to survive. But at some point, the casual player base needs to start stepping up their game. As much as Yoshi P and the devs try to close the skill gap, it won't happen as long as players continue to get by with faceroll content. You could give players the same hotbars that PVP has, and you'll still find that one BLM who only uses Thunder, or that RDM who somehow finds a way to only hardcast Verthunder.

As he said,at some point,dev can try to close the gap,but if casual( and by casual,i mean people who and do an effort and complain they are kicked out of hard content) people dont make an effort,its pointless and we will end up with a tasteless game

[Sebazy]

Where in the hell did you come up with this crap?

Seriously....where is your source....this is a very bad troll in poor taste.

How is he a troll when his point is actually pretty frighteningly accurate?

Take the 165 dps blm (Not afk, not perma dead, not lagging) from earlier. At what point is the game telling them that their performance is unacceptable? They've gotten their Rabanastre clear, they've gotten at least two bits of loot. In the run that I encountered them in, they didn't even get kicked over that DPS, it took them repeatedly running Rofocale's chariot right to the far edge of the arena before people had enough of it.

Cases like this are all the source material you'll ever need.

I should upload the video of it as it's quite something to watch =(

[Gleipni]

snip(

please upload it,i wanna laugh,and since people always ask for proof or didnt happen,show them that sometimes,people dont give a fuck and rely too much on others

[RiyahArp]

Wrong...Savage isn't fun for you.

Savage at best has under 10% completion, and at worst 1% on most NA servers if you count the whole history of it. people don't even bother recruiting fresh 70s to try it, like in other games; in FFXI as soon as you hit 70 people often invited you to do Sky. You either try to do it with random strangers, or you advertise in PF hoping some static will pick you up and its not too late in the raid cycle to try. If you look in your data center's PF, you can often find one or no learning parties for each turn. The amount of salt over it is epic. You can tell me its fun all you want, but if you take a hard look in game, its obviously not.

Trying to make the rest of the game like it in baby steps is just going to make it more of a pain.

[KaivaC]

snip

If you are going to post numbers, link a source. All you are doing right now is saying numbers without evidence. I can easily do that. 75% of all players who have entered Shinryu Ex have cleared at least once. Is it true? Probably not. Won't matter without evidence to prove it. I didn't mention anything about me saying it is fun...in fact, I pointedly said that you in particular don't find it fun. I didn't realize that you spoke for the majority of the player base. I never made any mention on my level of enjoyment for those fights.

PS: For the record, I do find the fights fun...just to clear that up.

Do tell how the game that progressively gets tougher in completely optional Hard Mode dungeons is going to make it more of a pain. I'd love to hear the details of how fun and utterly asinine it would be to actually get players to start playing at level 70 content (lvl 80 in a couple years, likely). You know, just as how you would progress in normal FF games...or even in other MMOs.

[Sebazy]

Uploading now, I'll try to link it on my lunchbreak =o

people don't even bother recruiting fresh 70s to try it, like in other games; in FFXI as soon as you hit 70 people often invited you to do Sky. You either try to do it with random strangers, or you advertise in PF hoping some static will pick you up and its not too late in the raid cycle to try.

Doesn't this tally up with the fact that most fresh 70's simply couldn't get anywhere in it? I don't think people are asking for dungeons to mimic the difficulty of savage, rather that dungeon bosses should be used as an introduction to the sorts of mechanics that people will face later on as well as giving them some hints about what'll happen if they simply ignore them.

It's already been done, Amdapor Keep used this trick beautifully at ARR's launch.

[RiyahArp]

You can find clear numbers via lucky bancho's census, can search for that and it will lead you to reddit posts about it, since its a JP blog. They are snapshots of clears at specific times, based on how many people have the minion on lodestone. You can generally tell by participation who finds it fun. As for optional, ugh...the hall of the novice is optional, and that teaches you the basics of your job. I doubt people here want it optional, they want it mandatory.

[thrashette]

I personally think that the simplicity of the DPS role in earlier content is okay. Both tanking and healing can be daunting roles for new players, so I think it's fine that there's a low-pressure option to complete the main story with.

I always felt like the job quests should be more instructional. For open world objectives, they often make you use a certain ability that you already have, just to learn another as a reward. Also, I've found a lot of the job quest solo duties would've been easier with the spell I learned afterwards. I feel like the "duty action" would be really helpful here. Make the new ability a duty action, and teach the player how to use it in the solo duty. They could also be more challenging. I think it would be more fun if there was a real chance of failing the duty in ways other than simply not reading the instructions. This would improve player skill without embarrassing the player in a public setting and completely redesigning instanced group content.