Eight Fixes to Make These Changes Good.

[Kiote]

Bullshit. There's no way you're going to pull aggro just from auto attack. There's absolutely no reason you should ever pull aggro, especially not from auto attack. Learn how to play your class, and stop making comments like this. . .

I don't know how powerful your Archer is, but in 1.19 my Basic attack coupled with the nock ability is more than enough to put hate. Add on top of that the output from my Weapon Skills and it hard to keep hate off me. This hold true for every Archer I have partied with.

If the current level of damage is attached to the Auto Attack of an Archer, they will be hate pulling machines. If it is not, then one of two things happened. They made Archers do less Damage or they made Archers attack slower. Neither of these two options is worth having auto-attack. Especially when having the manual shot allow for a much more strategic fight. I prefer not watching my Character fight. I certainly do not want to go back to the painfully slow melee combat of FFXI.

[Viridiana]

I don't know how powerful your Archer is, but in 1.19 my Basic attack coupled with the nock ability is more than enough to put hate. Add on top of that the output from my Weapon Skills and it hard to keep hate off me. This hold true for every Archer I have partied with.

If the current level of damage is attached to the Auto Attack of an Archer, they will be hate pulling machines. If it is not, then one of two things happened. They made Archers do less Damage or they made Archers attack slower. Neither of these two options is worth having auto-attack. Especially when having the manual shot allow for a much more strategic fight. I prefer not watching my Character fight. I certainly do not want to go back to the painfully slow melee combat of FFXI.

I didn't say from Light Shot plus Multishot plus Trifurcate. I said from Light Shot. You're talking about reducing the damage output (or slowing down) the ranged auto attack. The ranged auto attack is Light Shot. It's not Light Shot plus Trifurcate. It's not Light Shot plus Multishot. It's just Light Shot, plus something like Raging Strike. If that, by itself, pulls aggro, your tank is incompetent and needs to learn how to play his class. If you're going to keep trying to mix 1.19 abilities into your arguments for 1.20, you need to stop being disingenuous. . .

[Kiote]

I didn't say from Light Shot plus Multishot plus Trifurcate. I said from Light Shot. You're talking about reducing the damage output (or slowing down) the ranged auto attack. The ranged auto attack is Light Shot. It's not Light Shot plus Trifurcate. It's not Light Shot plus Multishot. It's just Light Shot, plus something like Raging Strike. If that, by itself, pulls aggro, your tank is incompetent and needs to learn how to play his class. If you're going to keep trying to mix 1.19 abilities into your arguments for 1.20, you need to stop being disingenuous. . .

You realize you are basically arguing in favor of nerfing archer right? Gaining Auto-attack, means loosing all of the abilities that made the previous Manual attack so powerful. By loosing all of those skills in favor of auto-attack you are Taking a significant hit to your DPS.

[Viridiana]

You realize you are basically arguing in favor of nerfing archer right? Gaining Auto-attack, means loosing all of the abilities that made the previous Manual attack so powerful. By loosing all of those skills in favor of auto-attack you are Taking a significant hit to your DPS.

Gaining auto attack means losing the abilities that made manual attacking so spiky. If anything, they can buff the damage done by the individual shots, because Multishot and Trifurcate were essentially haste effects, and we all know haste is an extremely powerful stat. Granted, our attacks will no longer be subject to operator-induced delays, either, so that might balance out.

Essentially, though, I'd say that Light Shot/Multishot/Trifurcate should never have been such a major component of ARC damage to start with. If these changes mean that ARC weapon skills become more prominent without nerfing ARC damage overall, I'm all for it.

[Alerith]

Granted, our attacks will no longer be subject to operator-induced delays, either, so that might balance out.

I think nobody is really paying attention to how important this is. With all the complaints of server lag, messed up recast timers and the like, this is going to eliminate not firing on time because of lag or other operator-induced errors. In turn, this is even going to INCREASE your DPS over time.

There is no reason for them to gimp damage OR attack speed, considering you WILL NOT pull hate with auto attacks alone unless your tank is straight up incompetent.

And really you could argue that all jobs are losing out on skills that make manually attacking important. If GLA loses Light Stab, Heavy Slash and Heavy Stab, is that not three TP generating abilities lost that further reduce GLA DPS? (Not saying GLA is a DD class, just using it's skills as an example.)

[Kiote]

I think nobody is really paying attention to how important this is. With all the complaints of server lag, messed up recast timers and the like, this is going to eliminate not firing on time because of lag or other operator-induced errors. In turn, this is even going to INCREASE your DPS over time.

There is no reason for them to gimp damage OR attack speed, considering you WILL NOT pull hate with auto attacks alone unless your tank is straight up incompetent.

And really you could argue that all jobs are losing out on skills that make manually attacking important. If GLA loses Light Stab, Heavy Slash and Heavy Stab, is that not three TP generating abilities lost that further reduce GLA DPS? (Not saying GLA is a DD class, just using it's skills as an example.)

Did you really just argue that Making Archer weaker is ok because they are making everyone weaker? It's bad enough that, ranger aside, everyone basic attack were already severely gimped in 1.19. I can understand making basic attacks significantly weaker than weapons skills, but there is no reason for certain classes having a hard time breaking 25 damage. Archer was fun because you could put out large quantities of damage at will without being locked into the fight to keep up your damage. Now, instead of doing Large amounts of strategic damage Archers will have to stand around and wait for their weapon skills like everyone else.

Lower Damage and Less engaging combat is not better in my opinion.

As far as the server lag is concerned, your not looking at the big picture. When the server lag is fixed, that point will be moot. At that time you will have sacrificed a fun and engaging class for something that is on par or worse than everything else. An Archer you can watch fight.

[Viridiana]

As far as the server lag is concerned, your not looking at the big picture. When the server lag is fixed, that point will be moot. At that time you will have sacrificed a fun and engaging class for something that is on par or worse than everything else. An Archer you can watch fight.

No, it won't be moot. Auto attack continues along at the same pace regardless of the player's latency or reaction time. That's easily adding up to half of a second every three seconds or so. So, no, you'll've traded manual control for increased damage. I also don't know where you're getting this idea that it'll lower damage. But, then, you never responded to my last post, either. . .

[Alerith]

Did you really just argue that Making Archer weaker is ok because they are making everyone weaker? It's bad enough that, ranger aside, everyone basic attack were already severely gimped in 1.19. I can understand making basic attacks significantly weaker than weapons skills, but there is no reason for certain classes having a hard time breaking 25 damage. Archer was fun because you could put out large quantities of damage at will without being locked into the fight to keep up your damage. Now, instead of doing Large amounts of strategic damage Archers will have to stand around and wait for their weapon skills like everyone else.

Lower Damage and Less engaging combat is not better in my opinion.

As far as the server lag is concerned, your not looking at the big picture. When the server lag is fixed, that point will be moot. At that time you will have sacrificed a fun and engaging class for something that is on par or worse than everything else. An Archer you can watch fight.

I apologize. I didn't realize you had poor reading comprehension. I said that it's happening to other jobs, and that any of them could argue their DPS is being lowered. But you don't see those classes raging. I specifically stated that they do NOT need to gimp ARC damage OR attack speed by switching to auto-attack because archer auto-attack damage would not break the job or the enmity table. Auto attack is doing nothing to hurt the job.

And really, if you can't still be strategic with auto-attack, you're a pathetic excuse for a DD.