The Journey - Is It Still Wanted?

[Jinko]

Well thats the thing isn't it, many ex FF11 fans have the deluded impression that length and time sink = difficulty. (this is fun, smiles whilst gritting his teeth)

Yoshi said his plan is to make leveling an easy experience for everyone and to have the challenge at end game, is there no option to have the "journey" at end game, I'm sure we will all have fond memories of battling our way through the crystal tower when its released.

I have some great memories from leveling in FF11, but FF11 was my first MMO and the experience was very fresh to me which is why it probably had a bigger impact, nosalgia is a funny thing.

Even if you slowed down the leveling in this game it wouldn't change the journey much as the area's all look the same anyway.

FWIW I have good memories of leveling multiple classes in WoW outlands and Northrend so you can have those same experiences in a more casual setting.

[Mahayana]

Hi All,

With the lively discussion in a recent PL thread, the topic of the Journey was brought up. Seeing the diverse opinions on the subject, I'm curious:

Thank you so much for making an excellent topic on something I have been talking about since I started playing XIV. I honestly have been in a bad rut of not playing because of the claims of capping and all instanced content. It has really put a bad taste in my mouth and I facepalm when I hear someone utter Next Gen MMO to justify making a game easier(Yoshi included).

Next Gen means making the experience look and feel better graphically and smoother with better written UIs and engines. It does not mean make the game easier to silence the people who cry that they cant devote the same time to stuff they used to. There were people like that in "last gen" but that made no difference because it created that "I'm better than you" feeling and that's what MMOs are all about... XD

[Jynx]

Do you actually read before you say anything? I mean really. So you're calling BS on something only I would personally know, then proceed to tell me I'm selfish because I want to level a job after I get home & not merit? Seems like the jokes on you, because you don't seem to know a thing and dropping a bunch of assumptions like this forum normally does without any solid facts besides your whole self proclaimed crap.

And also good job not reading like 90% of what I said, we aren't talking soloing at 75 (seriously why would I be soloing on a 75 when I want group on a 40?), not even in the slightest so there's another nice little assumption gone wrong. The only objective opinion I see are the people here, did I once say I care how you play your game? Nope, yet here I am arguing about the most pointless crap over some people trying to defend something that I gave not so "omg so nostalgic" opinion about.

Moral of the story, actually read my posts before you start running your mouth instead of skimming through so you can grab some out of context quote to try and look witty.

Let's go through some points.

-You are not selfish if you want to level instead of help a friend. You are selfish when you whine about having to level instead of helping a friend because you had every option to do either and choose the former.

-I solod on Thief well before 75, getting a party was rough for thief for...almost forever. When I wasn't making my own parties I was soloing (Great way to keep your marksmenship capped.) Any class can solo pre-75 it's not the best exp under the sun but it's better than sitting around with a thumb up your behind crying about the lack of parties. On this notion, lowman parties always worked as well. You are to blame if you just went with cookie cutter camp/party setups and didn't go beyond the little box you define as the "Norm"

-I stand by my assumption that you let 9/10ths of the game pass you by while you wept gently into a friends shoulder about how bad you felt when you had to merit on drg.

-What you thought about FFXI is irrelevant, you have no place to come in and shit on everyone elses opinion of the game who don't agree with you. I haven't said anything about your sad experience in the game aside that I feel you missed out on some of the greater things the game had to offer bassed on what little information you have givin me to go on. Was it the wrong way to play the game? I might think so, but all the power to you to sit in town for hours on end waiting for someone else to make the game happen for you, "Grinding" instead of playing the game.

-I frankly don't give a damn wether you liked parts of XI or hated it all, calling people massochists because they like a certain playstyle. I guess I'm a bit guilty on this front as well as I called you selfish for not "Ditching" your merit parties to help friends, I'll bite the bullet on that one.

I did read your entire post and my points all stand, your half assed assumptions about my posts aren't helping your post either.

[Phen]

You know I recall the journey and what was right in FFXI but lets also look at what was flawed there to make a better journey in the future:

10Valkrum: Goblins, Crabs, Flies
20Qufim: Crabs, Fish
25Yuhtunga: Mandy, Goblins
30Altepa: Beetles
35Gustav/CN: Crawlers, Goblins, Flies
40Altepa(w): Beetles
Okay assuming this is up to what the magicite quest? We have fought for exp mostly 7 types of monsters and this pretty much stayed crawlers and crabs most of the way up. This is what a huge majority did, and being party based you have to keep in mind that means majority rules. If its the same five things over and over thats not much different than the 1-50 in one zone problem.

[weeble]

You know I recall the journey and what was right in FFXI but lets also look at what was flawed there to make a better journey in the future:

10Valkrum: Goblins, Crabs, Flies ]also fish,lizards, ..rank 17'ish worms and bats[/COLOR]
20Qufim: Crabs, Fish also goblins and worms[/COLOR]
25Yuhtunga: Mandy, Goblins
30Altepa: Beetles also goblins [/COLOR]
35Gustav/CN: Crawlers, Goblins, Flies also galeigh citedel, bats, beetles[/COLOR]
40Altepa(w): Beetles also dalmah's and probably other places i'm just not thinking of. [/COLOR]
Okay assuming this is up to what the magicite quest? We have fought for exp mostly 7 types of monsters and this pretty much stayed crawlers and crabs most of the way up. This is what a huge majority did, and being party based you have to keep in mind that means majority rules. If its the same five things over and over thats not much different than the 1-50 in one zone problem.

(while lot of repeats gotta think classes on these and also what moves you gained like dispel. every step gave you a new perspective to the fights, crabs at start no dispel, later with. so now your paying attention to a new thing in the battle. most might not remember say weapons in moon grinds on magic base weapons, was pretty awesome in there and lot of work as a mage. theres a big diff from how that game approached it's grinds and this game does by a long shot.

on top of that also getting to each zone the first time was pretty epic in itself. seeing them all was fun ..no maps made it 30times as big as it was to boot. i don't think the game felt repetative till my 3rd or 4th class at max. from rdm..then speeding threw brd with pulling right from dunes. to bursts on blm to blink tank nin and all the content inbetween and all the speed bumps of fun they added to it, i never got bored.[/COLOR]

[Hanemakikaze]

Let's go through some points.

-You are not selfish if you want to level instead of help a friend. You are selfish when you whine about having to level instead of helping a friend because you had every option to do either and choose the former.

-I solod on Thief well before 75, getting a party was rough for thief for...almost forever. When I wasn't making my own parties I was soloing (Great way to keep your marksmenship capped.) Any class can solo pre-75 it's not the best exp under the sun but it's better than sitting around with a thumb up your behind crying about the lack of parties. On this notion, lowman parties always worked as well. You are to blame if you just went with cookie cutter camp/party setups and didn't go beyond the little box you define as the "Norm"

-I stand by my assumption that you let 9/10ths of the game pass you by while you wept gently into a friends shoulder about how bad you felt when you had to merit on drg.

-What you thought about FFXI is irrelevant, you have no place to come in and shit on everyone elses opinion of the game who don't agree with you. I haven't said anything about your sad experience in the game aside that I feel you missed out on some of the greater things the game had to offer bassed on what little information you have givin me to go on. Was it the wrong way to play the game? I might think so, but all the power to you to sit in town for hours on end waiting for someone else to make the game happen for you, "Grinding" instead of playing the game.

-I frankly don't give a damn wether you liked parts of XI or hated it all, calling people massochists because they like a certain playstyle. I guess I'm a bit guilty on this front as well as I called you selfish for not "Ditching" your merit parties to help friends, I'll bite the bullet on that one.

I did read your entire post and my points all stand, your half assed assumptions about my posts aren't helping your post either.

It's like no one here has reading comprehension I swear, let me break this down for you. I never whined about not getting parties I gave my opinion of how it WAS when I played, when I couldn't get one I did something else I really didn't feel like doing to pass the time over the 5 years of playing that bs, this is how I got everything explored/done because I was always seeking so damn long. And about me leveling ? Here's where you clearly once again can't read worth a damn, I've said multiple times that my version of helping a friend was joining a merit party instead of leveling because of course all my friends mostly only did that till an event. So once again let me break this down for you, no one actually needed my help, but I had the choice to merit or seek a few hours getting pretty much nothing done but your crappy quests that are completely meaningless to me. Got that now? I'm sure you got it after the 3rd time right?

Like I said, know what you're talking about before you run your mouth, you just make yourself look like an ass. And I haven't shit on anyones opinion just because I have a negative one, never once did I say no one can play the way they want, oh but wait I think you did a few times. Swear these forums are so ridiculous. And please show me where I assume anything about your posts, all I've done is point out the flawed 90% of the crap you're spewing about knowing what I've done or how I've done it.

Anyway this'll be last post at you, just another ridiculous fanatic making up the most ridiculous crap to try and get a point across that will never go through. All I see you saying are creative ways to be bored, and ineffective ways to party. I shouldn't have to sit there and tell my entire "life story" of xi to make a point, but as I said you're one the types on these forums that will just keep coming up with more of the same excuses every time no matter what I say so I'm leaving it at that, take it for what ya will damn hypocrite.

[weeble]

if you make your own party your never not grouping. i think i made like 90percent of my grinds and i never sat around doing nothing. at worse near the end of the games life it just took a little longer to do, other then that not even the least wanted classes i leved i had no issue putting together a decent group. problem is most people just go afk and expect people to do everything for them, granted games should be getting on the way easier mode for grouping. like gw2 public parties and campaign battle type things where it's just really easy to show up and get to business. but when there is things that need to be put together people are just afk watching tv, playing other games or whatever else they do and then complain they didn't get a invite. well what u expect. lol

also when the game first released bigger problem was sooo many parties in every zone u run out of mobs, the hardest choice in making a party was deciding hmmm taru healer or the galka healer lol. and again, if you build it ..they will come.

[Seif]

You know I recall the journey and what was right in FFXI but lets also look at what was flawed there to make a better journey in the future:

10Valkrum: Goblins, Crabs, Flies
20Qufim: Crabs, Fish
25Yuhtunga: Mandy, Goblins
30Altepa: Beetles
35Gustav/CN: Crawlers, Goblins, Flies
40Altepa(w): Beetles
Okay assuming this is up to what the magicite quest? We have fought for exp mostly 7 types of monsters and this pretty much stayed crawlers and crabs most of the way up. This is what a huge majority did, and being party based you have to keep in mind that means majority rules. If its the same five things over and over thats not much different than the 1-50 in one zone problem.

On one hand I sort of agree but then I think about the current alternative.

Yes you're running around a lot more while grinding BUT everything looks the same.
Yes you're probably killing a greater variety of mobs BUT they all feel exactly the same.

Now that i think about it, even a simple Qufim party takes a lot more coordination and strategy to know when and where the wights move and time it to the daylight trips to the book to get a new page. Also depending on the pt setup the fights that you were in for SEVERAL hours could still turn out really intense when suddenly a mob too many gets suddenly pulled.

As mundane and almost even boring that was in XI I'd have a hard time remembering anything that has been as exciting in XIV yet.

Yes XI has it's flaws but it still does almost everything better than the current XIV and that's why the devs should pay attention to that game and not all the wows and rifts that they are so keen on copying.

It's a common misconception that SE is listening to user feedback and developing the game accordingly. They are just adding basic functions of an MMO that should have been in the product to begin with.

[Lucifer]

Leveling up should never be a grind. IF you have ever played an FF prior to 11 you would know the game never forces you to stand in one area and grind, the only thing you had to work for in previous FF's was Gil, special armor, special spells, and special weapons. which is the current goal of FFXIV.

Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.

Irrelevant. I don't even know why you're making a statement if you're going to ignore the fact FFXI was an -MMO-RPG.
IF you have ever played an MMORPG prior to FFXI...I don't need to say anymore.

Who are you to define what an RPG is? People like you make me sick. The thought of someone having an opposing viewpoint is so foreign to you that you can't see beyond it.

I think someone who has a long history with them, should be able to enlighten others on the subject. You're just trying to make an argument because I've angered you.

Lucifer that argument can go both ways ya know, someone could come in and say "you elitist bunch make me sick" etc etc.

Gaming has changes a lot in the last 10 years, not only MMO's and RPG's but pretty much every genre, platformers barely exist anymore, everything is FPS and shooters and JRPG's are in a sorry state.

There are hundres of thousands of new casual players due to things like the Wii and WoW.

Add all this together with the cost of development these days and that companies like SE wanting to make money of course they are going to target the casual crowd just as WoW, Rift, Aion and every other MMO out there is trying to do.

Final Fantasy single player games are designed for casual play, it makes sense that an online title with the same name would follow in those footsteps, at least if they want it to appeal to the same crowd, yes FF11 didn't go that route but thats neither here nor there, from the very beginning of this games development it has been touted as being casual and solo friendly.

This is what hurts me the most. The genre has been completely redefined to cater to these masses. The Ifrit fight is a perfect example of this. We are simply going to fight boss after boss hoping to get crazy gear so we can be proud of our measly accomplishment. If this is the direction they want, why not just make hubs. That way we pick the people we want to go with, down the boss and end the night with a bang. You don't have to level up. (Why bother with this if you're removing the journey to max level?) No more traveling since all you're doing is teleporting to the next dungeon. No crafting needed. You don't need it since you're getting epic loot XD.

I just saved SE millions of dollars and cut all the time sinks. Now you guys can kill your bosses, get the gear you want, and you will be extremely happy you can show it off to your friends.

[Isaveron]

Heaven forbid people have fun in their MMORPG. Ever wonder why the genre was nothing more than a niche, only played by the most masochistic and stereotypical PC gamer? Because those were the types that willingly allowed a game to take over their life.