Why Does It Feel Like Poor Play Is Acceptable (I'm Venting.)

[winsock]

They should be assisted.

Didn't you say just a moment ago "That doesn’t excuse his behavior as being incredibly inconsiderate of the other three people he gets in his party."

I mean, they both could have practiced on mobs in the open world. they could have watched videos. They could have practice a the smith a few more times, etc.

Technically speaking, it's still inconsiderate (thoughtlessly causing hurt or inconvenience to others). They could have thought it out better, researched more, practice more, etc to not inconvenience their party members.

There is a huge difference from this scenario you’re now presenting, and your previous one of a level 70 tank that doesn’t know how to tank queuing into level 70 content wanting to learn, and assuming people would be just as accommodating.

I didn't say john was assuming the party would be accommodating or that he was queuing with the intent of learning. John queued because he thought he knew how to play and since he is level 70, he queued for a 70 dungeon. How did you come to the conclusion that he queued with the intention of learning from an accommodating party? You couldnt have known. If you couldn't know johns circumstances, you must have made them up. And if the circumstances were just dreamt up in your imagination, how can you hold john accountable? He never did the things you are accusing him of.

[Jijifli]

Didn't you say just a moment ago "That doesn’t excuse his behavior as being incredibly inconsiderate of the other three people he gets in his party."

I mean, they both could have practiced on mobs in the open world. they could have watched videos. They could have practice a the smith a few more times, etc.

Technically speaking, it's still inconsiderate (thoughtlessly causing hurt or inconvenience to others). They could have thought it out better, researched more, practice more, etc to not inconvenience their party members.

Here's your issue. You changed the dungeon in question to sastasha. Sastasha is the first dungeon, and to be completely honest, I expect literally 3 afk's if I go in there. Why? It's the first dungeon, people who'd been playing for maybe a day get into there. My example in Snowcloak, I'm getting irritated because the tank can't hold threat. I had a Sastasha in leveling roulette yesterday on my exact same job, with a similar case of pulling off the tank. Wanna know what I did differently? I assisted the player, explaining what can help them out. By the end of the dungeon, the player had the boss and could do his job.

Now if level 15 Jimmy could do it, why can't level 70 John? If he just listens in Sastasha he'll learn a lot.

[winsock]

Here's your issue. You changed the dungeon in question to sastasha.

What makes sastasha so special?
I've done most of the expert roulette roster without a healer (havent attempted since the addition of skalla). I've heard they can be completed without a tank. Why must it be sastasha?

I think its great you assisted the player in sastasha. I agree people who refuse to work with the party should be kicked (for example if you ask someone to use tank stance and flash but they refuse). What is the issue with assisting someone in say, Ala Mhigo instead of Sastasha if they need help? It's really not a big deal is it?

[Jijifli]

What makes sastasha so special?
I've done most of the expert roulette roster without a healer (havent attempted since the addition of skalla). I've heard they can be completed without a tank. Why must it be sastasha?

Actually this is my other issue now that you brought it up. Dungeons marked 'expert' have to be made numbingly easy because of people like John, in your examples, that can't grasp such basic things.

Imagine how much cooler our experts could go if people learned how to press flash?

If i instruct someone with "the very basics" in sastasha, keeping it as simple as possible and expecting minimal performance, I might say: run into a group and use flash X times.
If i instruct someone with "the very basics" in Ala Mhigo, keeping it as simple as possible and expecting minimal performance, I might say: keep shield oath activated, run into a group, and use flash X times.

Is mentioning shield oath such an inconvenience that you cant be bothered to assist people after level 70?

First off, fixed that for you, since you called Ala Mhigo a level 30 dungeon.

Second of all, done that. Got called a c*nt that needs a life. Expert dungeons are so fun.

[winsock]

Actually this is my other issue now that you brought it up. Dungeons marked 'expert' have to be made numbingly easy because of people like John, in your examples, that can't grasp such basic things.

Imagine how much cooler our experts could go if people learned how to press flash?



First off, fixed that for you, since you called Ala Mhigo a level 30 dungeon.

Second of all, done that. Got called a c*nt that needs a life. Expert dungeons are so fun.

The level 30 was a reference to shield oath, not the dungeon.

I am by no means excusing the behavior of people to resort to name calling and such, but are you really being fair here? Player A is a jerk and is mean to you, so you take it out on player B?

[Jijifli]

I am by no means excusing the behavior of people to resort to name calling and such, but are you really being fair here? Player A is a jerk and is mean to you, so you take it out on player B?

The reason this thread was made was because of people who actively ignore or harass those who put advice in a kind and helpful way. Kindly mentioning shield oath gets me harassed. Kindly mentioning fire gets me harassed. I made the thread to get the constantly building steam off before I took it out on someone who didn't deserve it.

Please look at my original post again, or do I gotta hold your hand to it as well?

[winsock]

I gotta hold your hand to it as well?

I'm not being aggressive toward you, even sided with you about the person who was mean to you. I'm not telling you how to act, just pointing out that you're judging people based on actions they've never taken. Then you start talking down to me, show disrespect, and engage in the very behavior you seem to be so opposed to.

[HyoMinPark]

Didn't you say just a moment ago "That doesn’t excuse his behavior as being incredibly inconsiderate of the other three people he gets in his party."

You can’t use that argument against me, and you know it.

The prior statement was made when you were talking about level 70 content. The second scenario is level 15 content. Different arguments apply because the context is entirely different. There is a huge difference between a tank who doesn’t know how to tank queuing into level 70 content and level 15 content. The latter is clearly designed as entry-level, and is more adequate for both learning and teaching than level-cap, “expert” content.

I mean, they both could have practiced on mobs in the open world. they could have watched videos. They could have practice a the smith a few more times, etc.

Tanking mobs in the overworld and tanking them in dungeons are entirely different.

I didn't say john was assuming the party would be accommodating or that he was queuing with the intent of learning. John queued because he thought he knew how to play and since he is level 70, he queued for a 70 dungeon. How did you come to the conclusion that he queued with the intention of learning from an accommodating party? You couldnt have known. If you couldn't know johns circumstances, you must have made them up. And if the circumstances were just dreamt up in your imagination, how can you hold john accountable? He never did the things you are accusing him of.

I can hold John accountable because he came into level 70 content and could not perform the very basics of his job description regardless of his “circumstances”. Again, there is a HUGE different between John in level 15 content and John in level 70 content.

What makes sastasha so special?
I've done most of the expert roulette roster without a healer (havent attempted since the addition of skalla). I've heard they can be completed without a tank. Why must it be sastasha?

I think its great you assisted the player in sastasha. I agree people who refuse to work with the party should be kicked (for example if you ask someone to use tank stance and flash but they refuse). What is the issue with assisting someone in say, Ala Mhigo instead of Sastasha if they need help? It's really not a big deal is it?

The difference is, you shouldn’t be teaching a PLD how Flash works in Ala Mhigo. If they are a level 70 PLD and don’t know how Flash functions after playing the job for 70 levels (or even just 10 if you want to assume maybe they jumped the job), then there is a huge problem there.

You shouldn’t be teaching someone the VERY BASICS OF THEIR ROLE at endgame.

[winsock]

I can hold John accountable because he came into level 70 content and could not perform the very basics of his job description regardless of his “circumstances”. Again, there is a HUGE different between John in level 15 content and John in level 70 content.

Could you elaborate on this huge difference?
If i instruct someone with "the very basics" in sastasha, keeping it as simple as possible and expecting minimal performance, I might say: run into a group and use flash X times.
If i instruct someone with "the very basics" in Ala Mhigo, keeping it as simple as possible and expecting minimal performance, I might say: keep shield oath activated, run into a group, and use flash X times.

Is mentioning shield oath such an inconvenience that you cant be bothered to assist people after level 30?

[HyoMinPark]

Could you elaborate on this huge difference?
If i instruct someone with "the very basics" in sastasha, keeping it as simple as possible and expecting minimal performance, I might say: run into a group and use flash X times.
If i instruct someone with "the very basics" in Ala Mhigo, keeping it as simple as possible and expecting minimal performance, I might say: keep shield oath activated, run into a group, and use flash X times.

Is mentioning shield oath such an inconvenience that you cant be bothered to assist people after level 30?

Why should I be teaching a level 70 tank the importance of their tank stance? Or their cooldowns? Or their enmity combo? Shouldn’t they already have learned how those work after playing the job for 70 levels?

When you’re running endgame content, people are going to expect you to know how to perform your job/role at a level 70 level. And this is for all roles—I shouldn’t have to teach healers the importance of using HoTs or their stronger heals at level 70. I shouldn’t have to teach DPS how to use a basic AOE rotation or basic 1-2-3. The time to ask for basic levels of help is not at level 70.