Elephant in the room - action changes from the lore standpoint

[Razor]

I am still honestly confused about why CNJ became WHM and THM became BLM.

You all can correct me if I'm wrong because I haven't advanced far enough in either mage class to learn about their lore in any kind of depth. But from the main storyline I got the following gist:

Conjurers atune themselves to the elements (in particular, Gridania's elements of the wood) and through dedication have learned how to summon forth these elementals and wield their destructive power. (Sounds like a black mage to me)

Thaumaturges took a different route, using science and ancient tomes and maybe alchemy? They specialized in more or less 'forbidden' magics (light and dark) with a particular focus on bringing people back to life and sacrifice and all that forbidden stuff. Although this does lend itself to the notion of a "dark mage" it is more or less sacrifice for the benefit of others which at its core sounds more like a healer to me.

How SE flipped it around and made CNJ both 'the' healer and 'the' elemental specialist at the same time still baffles me. All that leaves for THM would be their forbidden magic which could have been elaborated on (much like SCH from XI) focusing on their debuff/manipulation skills (sleep/enfeebles). They could even go as far as giving the THM the ancient magic for the sole reason that its ancient and forbidden, something the holy Conjurers wouldn't dare touch.


As far as PGL/MNK's lore I can see it being easily adaptable. The lore around PGL is merely that they beat people up when those people don't pay their debt to Uldah. Since Uldah is set in the desert (properties including earth fire and wind) it makes sense that they would deviate from GLA (solely metal/muscle) and meditate in the elements to empower themselves.

[Betelgeuzah]

You all can correct me if I'm wrong because I haven't advanced far enough in either mage class to learn about their lore in any kind of depth. But from the main storyline I got the following gist:

They developed these classes not giving a damn about the existing lore. What is there not to get? Either the lore stays as is or is getting changed along with everything else.

[Razor]

They developed these classes not giving a damn about the existing lore. What is there not to get? Either the lore stays as is or is getting changed along with everything else.

Did you even read the rest of my post? I wanted to make sure that what I was about to say about the old class concepts was correct by the old lore.

[Betelgeuzah]

The old lore can be easily twisted both ways.

[tymora]

PUG/MNK with elemental attacks is probably to be in line with Asian Fantasy with the concept of Ki/Chi.

[Alerith]

I'm really surprised that everyone has seems to have forgotten that, despite whether or not they liked past games, SE is known for telling amazing stories with excellent background. From FFI to FFXIV, Tactics, Remakes, Compilations, and the like. Whether gameplay was bad or battle mechanics flawed, SE has always had two things going for them without fail: Storylines and Music.

Let's have a little faith here that Yoshida knows what he's doing and that the lore will be adjusted and it will be better than ever.

Also, what's with the rage over PGL/MNK having some elemental abilities? It takes nothing away from the class, it only adds more versatility. From the sounds of it, you aren't required to use elemental attacks all the time, so let's wait and see?

[Betelgeuzah]

Let's have a little faith here that Yoshida knows what he's doing and that the lore will be adjusted and it will be better than ever.

I'd have more faith if the producer/director who happens to be new to the franchise would come out and state that he has things under control in this particular area.

[Alcide]

It's not that these changes are just against a bunch of lines written on the class description on the website, they're against EVERY class quest of EVERY class... I mean, if you already have to make massive changes common sense would say that you should try to save what can be saved, but at this point there isn't a single quest/cs that can be left untouched.

Actually I already gave up on the lore argument since the whole previous lore, not just the class related one, is just gonna be ignored (and that's BS, I mean that was the only thing that could have been kept from the original game, just call it FFXV if you don't wanna keep anything at all).
What's really bugging me is that they're ignoring the new lore too...

Thaumaturges are casters who command spells of the six elements to wreak havoc on their enemies.

[Airget]

It's not that these changes are just against a bunch of lines written on the class description on the website, they're against EVERY class quest of EVERY class... I mean, if you already have to make massive changes common sense would say that you should try to save what can be saved, but at this point there isn't a single quest/cs that can be left untouched.

Actually I already gave up on the lore argument since the whole previous lore, not just the class related one, is just gonna be ignored (and that's BS, I mean that was the only thing that could have been kept from the original game, just call it FFXV if you don't wanna keep anything at all).
What's really bugging me is that they're ignoring the new lore too...

Is that because THM lacks the use of earth/water/wind and the lack of any water elemental magic?

From the standpoint of spells that can be cross classed from CON to THM you have
Choke and Stoneja.
If you look at the THM to CON list of spells you have
Thunder, Firaga I-II.

If you consider BLM choice of spells you have access to:
Choke, Stoneja, Thunder I-IV, Firaga I-IV, Freeze, AOE Freeze, Freeze 2

If you look at the elements acessible to both CON/THM you would realize that they are setup in a odd way. We aren't given a full set of spells like Choke, Burn, Drown, Rasp, Frost and Shock, we only appear to have Choke.

At face value one can assume that perhaps the descriptions are set in stone and we are only getting what we're seeing which means we won't have a water elemental based attack. However if you look at it from the other end you can define each spell as it's own effect.
CON=DoT and ele evasion down
THM=Single Target, Aga and Ancient magic.

It's quite possible we may see traits that effect the element of said abilties such as going to Fire= Burn, Firaja, Fire, Firaga and Flare Water=Drown, Waterja, Water, Waterga, Freeze and so forth. There are 12 traits that will be given to each class so it's not to farfetched to think that THM may get 6 elemenetal based traits that you can only equip at one time which will turn all elemental based spells into that type.

While said trait isn't active the descriptions given may be it's base effect where as if you were to equip fire, all other elemental attacks would change to fire element but the fire one would remain unchanged.

[Fendras]

This topic is basically reflecting on my biggest concern in the game right now. Frankly it's baffled me that the elementalists have gradually take on the role of healers, and the priests of life and death became the nukers. To quote something relevant I mentioned in another topic:

Why is the job/class that's all about preserving one's life force and raising the dead based "where the voices of Eorzea's elementals are said to be most powerful" while the elemental nuker comes from a temple and ossuary, a place meant to serve as the final resting place of a person's remains?

Anyway... we've got some pretty awkward times ahead if the lore doesn't get "fixed" quickly, and we have to wait until 2.0 before things start making sense again.