Why Does It Feel Like Poor Play Is Acceptable (I'm Venting.)

[Miste]

Almost like some kind of... In-game parser!

*hides from angry antiparser people*

LIEK OH EM GEE you should know better! You spoke of the FORBIDDEN (myyyy....PREEEECIOUS....) TABOO!

PUNISHMENT ENACTED!

*throws bananas at Moro*

[spagthetapdancer]

I would definitely recommend joining The Balance Discord (LINK if you're interested; don't think it's against any rules to link it here, but if so, I apologize). Very helpful and renown Discord that is full of veterans and theorycrafters willing to help people with job optimization. They have a forum as well, I believe. I have never posted there, though. Just the Discord.

thanks for pointing me there. I'll be in under my character name.

[Yeol]

Playing poorly is not acceptable. The reason you think it is acceptable is because not many people are complaining about it in game.

We are not allowed to discuss dps numbers (ACT is not allowed to be used that way) so you can't tell people that they are doing low dps. Not using proper rotation, buffs or AoE, all that can be noticed without the need of ACT. So you can give people advice on how to get better.

When people receive an advice, most of them act like victims. Respond back rudely or ignore you. It can be that the advice was not delivered properly or the person receiving it is just too sensitive. Either way, many people just stopped bothering with it.

Words like "pro parse", "elitist", "toxic" gets thrown easily at anyone giving advice. It is not worth getting called bad names because you gave an advice in a brain dead content.

[Tint]

When people receive an advice, most of them act like victims. Respond back rudely or ignore you. It can be that the advice was not delivered properly or the person receiving it is just too sensitive.

i think a big part of the problem is that we can't use /tell inside a dungeon. regardless how polite you try to formulate, you are calling that person out for bad play in front of other people / shaming them in public.

[Krotoan]

Almost like some kind of... In-game parser!

*hides from angry antiparser people*

I'm not sure how this would help someone who is only hitting one button while doing any role. Someone who smashes the most TP expensive button over and over again because they think that means more damage isn't going to be the type that uses a parser and looks to optimize. It also wouldn't really help a cruddy tank or a poor healer.

so while I understand what you're implying, understand this is more about establishing a baseline , not min/maxing. Which parsers wouldn't particularly help or encourage any behavior.

[Alleo]

Playing poorly is acceptable in specific content. That's because the stage before getting good is being bad and possibly not knowing it. Improving performance entails first being at a lower level of performance, then realizing it, and later being at a higher level of performance. Depending on the game content it should be expected to run into the players who have not yet improved or realized the need to.

This content is usually leveling content, but since the jump potions were introduced the game has "started" from level 60 for some people. If you expect everyone in Sirensong (or lower content) always to have a grasp of the game when it is possible someone totally new to gaming could be in your party, well it's just unrealistic expectations. However the later leveling dungeons and Shinryu are pretty good at training players so it's very rare to encounter totally hopeless players in max level content. But if it happens to you and it bothers you, then all you can do is be a good example and guide people to ensure they realize their need and areas to improve. Sometimes guidance involves kicking those with bad attitude.

I agree that we should be fine with people still learning their class/job in the lower dungeons but I disagree with the point about jump potions. Honestly if you need to level up your job with such a potion and then jump into group content..well I will hold you to the same level as someone that started from the beginning. It was their decision to jump upwards and it should not hold the others in the group back. Those that jump should learn their job before they go into such content and honestly I wished that they would have introduced an forced tutorial for such people. I am fine if they dont really know all the mechanics right now but I will not be fine with someone having no idea for their job in lvl 60 content and upwards. Its on them to have at least a basic understanding.

Now imagine the stickman on the left doesn't have a bad attitude, is 3 years old, and you are met with a page of scribbles because he doesn't quite understand what it means to play tic tac toe. I'm not saying that scribbles are acceptable in tic tac toe, but I'm going to tolerate it because he's 3 and really doesn't know any better

What kind of argument is that? Since when can someone that young even play games like FF14? Also imo its important to even teach kids at a young age that they need to play games with the rules otherwise you might turn them into those that dont care about rules at all and cry all the time if they cant win their way; so no letting children just play those games like they want to will probably lead to just teaching them things wrong..still I dont understand how that makes sense in relation to FF14? You need to be a certain age to play this without an adult at your side. And I kinda dont see how teenagers should be free from having to at least understand the basics..

For some (which is silly, when it comes to playing with other strangers. Though this goes into a deeper issue of respect for fellow players.) the baseline standard is tank should tank, a healer should heal, and a dps should dps. That is the baseline standard, anything beyond that is a expectation placed by the players not the game. Duty finder is random, the experience will suffer from massive variance swings, and trying to place individual player expectations on random players also suffers from such variance swings.

But for example the training halls for newer players do say that healers should DPS when they got free time, so doesnt the game itself just want more than just healing? Or all the DPS checks in dungeons. If you only need to DPS no matter what then why do we have so many DPS checks? And lets not forget that those bad players will just be carried through such a check by a very good player that has to play the best to even go through this..If you have two bad DD you will not manage to beat this so no just simply doing any kind of DPS is not the standard. (And lets not forget the vault, a great wake up call for healers. )

And the problem is not only dungeons where you will often be able to carry such a person..no you will have those join kill and farm groups for recent primals too. And even though we dont have a great tool ingame we still have stone, sky and sea that kinda hints at the amount of DPS needed. So if someone joins this that cant get it at least down to <10% on that puppet wouldnt that mean that they cant fulfill the basics of this fight and should not join it?

[PuppytimusLeoroccanz]

snip/ job jump potions

I agree with your points raised in regards to the jump potion. This is just an opinion of mine but I believe job/class jump potions are meant for players who already have an understanding of the game with their previous class let's say they got to 60/70 as a melee dps and instead of like leveling another melee dps from lvl 1 to 60 it would certainly take quite some time in order to do so but at least they have a rough idea of how melee dps functions although still have different mechanics from job to job basis which can be adapted in time.

The problem seems to be apparently are new players trying to head straight to storm blood/end game contents by boosting or people simply boosting a role that they are not familiar with for whatever reason it may be.

[Awha]

Snip . . .

I have never done healer hall, but do they say should or could? I agree a healer should DPS, and a tank should pull as much as he and the group can handle. Even semi afk players should be able to handle more then one group at a time. I mean most dungeons are trivial if people pull one group at a time.

Though I will be honest, our group has yet to clear current savage we need a lot more practice since we play with players that have certain limitations that is neither here nor there. Though so far we have been able to carry our friends through content despite them pretty much only using one or two skill since they like how they look.

Though I have seen videos of clears of two solid DPS pushing through the DPS check, doesn't that go to show that the dps checks are more or less a joke? Though if healers hall does say they should dps I prob will start trying to kick healers that sit around do nothing when not healing, normally I just leave the group if I do not want to deal with it. Never kicked a healer for that since I thought that would be a harassment, though if the healers hall say they should then rip for those healers that sit around and do nothing.

Speaking of hall, why do they not have a higher level version, that requires certain adjustments holding aggro on multiple mobs and requires dps to use aoe or something. idk

[Dzian]

Because they think its a game, and you think its a job.

That's honestly ridiculous. Hobbies and past times are generally things people do to better themselves.

If my hobby was cooking and I gave a hundred people food poisoning would it be an adequate defence to say well its just a past time not an actual job ya know...

No way. I tinker with cars and electrics. If someone came to me to fix there car and had an accident would it be acceptable for me to say well just a past time it's not a career I don't need to be good at it. I'd likely get arrested for neglect

Football's just a game does that mean players don't have to try that goalie can sit in goal with a pint and completely ignore the ball. Just a game after all who cares. Rest of the team would probably give you a bit of a beating. Or kick you off entirely.

[MoroMurasaki]

snip.

I think an in-game parser could help all but the single-button smasher right off the bat. Parsers aren't all about outgoing damage, ACT specifically has tabs for incoming damage, healing and threat to name just a few. If you can show a healer 'this is how much you healed, this is how much healing is generally required to clear this content' or a tank 'this is your threat generation, this is the threat generation of the dps that tanked most of the adds' that could most certainly help people understand their roles.

It's also concrete data to back up suggestions an experienced player gives in dungeons that the 'offending' player can see on their own screen to show them these suggestions aren't entirely without merit.

Parsers are invaluable for minmaxing, sure, but they're handy for everything actually.

LIEK OH EM GEE you should know better! You spoke of the FORBIDDEN (myyyy....PREEEECIOUS....) TABOO!

PUNISHMENT ENACTED!

*throws bananas at Moro*

I'll happily let people huck several bananas at me if it solves this issue xD