Why Does It Feel Like Poor Play Is Acceptable (I'm Venting.)

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Sigh...look, once you start obsessing over shoddy play and wondering why others aren't pulling their weight, you start viewing the game as a job. You invest way too much significance into it and get bothered way too much by the actions of others, in a way you simply shouldn't as a game.

Come on now, Riyah. You're a healer. You of ALL people should really understand the irony of that statement.

To all the healers here: Is it fun or is it unnecessary extra WORK to heal that one guy that stands in everything and gets hit by things he can otherwise avoid with plenty of time and even just the most basic awareness? Is it "fun" when you see someone doing it wrong, you KNOW they're doing it wrong, and once they pay the price for it, they look at you to blame? Is it more fun for you, or more work for you when someone shows a disregard (or worse, complete lack of awareness) for teamwork?

[Crysten]

Poor players will always be a thing so long as people enable the behaviour.

Terrible players will always be terrible.
Idiots will always defend them.

[Starflake]

You say this:



Then you say this:


Runs take longer when people make mistakes. It looks like you are expecting perfection, otherwise people are wasting your time. Your expectations are silly. You do a 12 minute run with your FC, therefore all runs should be 12 minutes. Really? If you are going to pug stuff, you need to accept the fact that you will be working with people of varying levels of skill and experience. Sometimes it's a great group, sometimes it's just average. Maybe people are playing something than their main job. Sometimes people have a bad run. It happens. We're human(most of us anyway). If you are going to complain about your time being wasted because a run takes 8 minutes longer than it does with your FC, maybe you should stick to single player games where you won't have other people wasting your time.

I should have been more specific. It was to demonstrate the amount of time lost and to argue that people should be sensible and try their best. I am not expecting 12 minute runs outside of my FC, I am expecting people to know their job and respect my time and the rest of the party their time. I thought that was pretty clear, but apparently it wasn't. I'm usually just fine when a run with pugs lasts twenty minutes if everyone is doing a decent job. I'm also fine when a Sastasha normal mode lasts 25 minutes if people are new and for example want to take in the scenery. I'd thought people would be clever enough to take this context for granted. What I do not think is fine, and this is the point I originally made is when the run lasts 20 minutes for example due to one player not even knowing how to aoe at 70. Or those two healers that do zero DPS and die more often than not in Primal farm. Hope that clarifies things a bit.

[ovIm]

I think, while people now start talking about the diversing skill of the players, the kind of people op talks about are perfectly summed up in this picture:



Now, we would all agree that playing with stickman on the left would not be a fun experience because he is not playing tic tac toe, he is just scribbling on the paper, right?

[Alleo]

I would be fine with it. I enter any duty with assumption it could take full time. Anything less is a bonus to me.

Somehow I have a really hard time to believe that you would be fine with it each and every run. Are you alright with this if you are in a farm group? Wiping the whole 60 minutes in one trial? I mean people have a different amount of time that they can play the game. I am not sure if someone would love a full run if the only have like 2 hours per day to play. (Half of the time would be gone just for one trial.) I mean I have no problems if that happens sometimes (at least in 24 man runs) but each time?

----

About the sport argument: Honestly there is a difference with just being fans that are watching something and you playing it. As a fan it would be kinda strange not to know some things but you are still just watching it. But the examples that were posted did not mean just watching but meeting to play it. Thats a huge difference. So yes if you are just a fan you might not need to know the basics (but why would you be a fan if you dont even understand it?) but as soon as you start playing it with others you need the knowledge. I wish I could see a situation where the ones that are arguing against at least the basic would watch something where some players dont play it good (in real life sport). Why do I have the feeling that they would dislike it?

@RiyahArp: But just because you did not see someone that bad does not mean that they dont exit. I did write a post about the one monk who did not have any basic idea of their job..and the 200 DPS BLM. They thankfully are not the majority but honestly I still have enough people in the few runs I do that are just not good and that only manage to clear it thanks to the rest of the party..(thankfully paladins have some self heals..)

[Laerune]

The only thing that we can do right now is either: educate them and deal with the poor play or avoid them by not playing with randoms or kicking them out. Untill there is a non-bannable way to show someone that they are playing poorly, I fear this situation will not change.

I reckon we will see SE, close the skill gap between the bad players and good players, then see them add a tool that shows who is playing poorly or not.

[Reinha]

Playing poorly is acceptable in specific content. That's because the stage before getting good is being bad and possibly not knowing it. Improving performance entails first being at a lower level of performance, then realizing it, and later being at a higher level of performance. Depending on the game content it should be expected to run into the players who have not yet improved or realized the need to.

This content is usually leveling content, but since the jump potions were introduced the game has "started" from level 60 for some people. If you expect everyone in Sirensong (or lower content) always to have a grasp of the game when it is possible someone totally new to gaming could be in your party, well it's just unrealistic expectations. However the later leveling dungeons and Shinryu are pretty good at training players so it's very rare to encounter totally hopeless players in max level content. But if it happens to you and it bothers you, then all you can do is be a good example and guide people to ensure they realize their need and areas to improve. Sometimes guidance involves kicking those with bad attitude.

[Lilseph]

Well, but there's a limit. The example of the WAR spamming Butcher's Block (No combo'd). I'd argue about it, but I've SEEN PLD's spamming uncombo'd RoH too. Or DPS using their finisher and not their combo chain. It's the very basic, you even learn your skills progressively and the tooltips tell you how these are enhanced by doing them in a succession. I've seen all that. Then you have the auto-attacker DPS, the no CD tanks that won't use AoE threat in dungeons, the "I'm standing still" healer that will use a healing spell sometime and see you die. Yes, I've witnessed all of that and I branded their rear with my boot.

But nope, you call them out and you're suddenly the elitist, the one taking this game "as a job". People making exaggerations like "expecting perfect gameplay from pugs", because the basics clearly mean perfection! Right? no? oh.

Get real, people. Stop trying to act like a "holier-than-thou" person and stop protecting these attitudes. That's wrong. Game or not, it has its rules, like every other game. Will you score goals against your team in a football match? Will you grab the golf ball, walk and place it in the hole with your hand? No, you don't do that. Games have rules, a meant to be played. The basics. It's not fair for others to carry you, because you "treating it like a game and not caring", are placing a unwanted burden on the rest of the group. You're part of a team, otherwise just go and play alone.

I'm disappointed with some people's attitude.

[winsock]

Now, we would all agree that playing with stickman on the left would not be a fun experience because he is not playing tic tac toe, he is just scribbling on the paper, right?

Applying this to ffxiv, I'd attempt to kick the left stickman. Not because of his performance, but because of his attitude. He could have even played the game correctly but if he's going to be hurling insults at his party he may be forced to find a new one.

Now imagine the stickman on the left doesn't have a bad attitude, is 3 years old, and you are met with a page of scribbles because he doesn't quite understand what it means to play tic tac toe. I'm not saying that scribbles are acceptable in tic tac toe, but I'm going to tolerate it because he's 3 and really doesn't know any better

[HyoMinPark]

Now imagine the stickman on the left doesn't have a bad attitude, is 3 years old, and you are met with a page of scribbles because he doesn't quite understand what it means to play tic tac toe. I'm not saying that scribbles are acceptable in tic tac toe, but I'm going to tolerate it because he's 3 and really doesn't know any better

Are...you trying to insinuate that everyone who plays poorly must be doing so because they are young? Because I don’t think that’s the case for a lot of them. Are you going to try to say that we should treat them like they’re young because we don’t know for sure if they aren’t or not? Because I’m not going to start automatically thinking that poor players automatically equals “Oh, well they must be a child so, free pass”.