Warriors need MORE damage

[Aana]

The few pugs I ran in v4s with no nin, there was no way to keep aggro off the whm without opening with berserk+unchained. It was depressing lol

My group doesn't have a nin (well our sam is considering swapping this week lol) and I pull on war in V4s without any issue. Half the time I forget to pop equal for threat too cuz im a scrub haha.

SIO before pull
Defiance: OP>Eye combo>(Onslaught)>Heavy>(Deliverance)>Sunder>(IR/Zerk)>BB>(Upheaval)> Normal path/eye/FC rotation

Little things like infuriate/rampart/Reprisal etc stuffed in there, but nothing fancy. I started with unchained pull. Eventually moved to this but keep defiance on through butchers. When GCA hits I stil had excessive threat and realized I just don't need it now. You only need hate through 1st grand cross when it resets anyway.

If you make it from 1st action OP to the onslaught after Eye then you've made it.
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Semi related: Why the heck does everyone use Toma to pull instead of OP? OP has more threat for a 1st action. Always seemed like gimping yourself for no reason.

[Anienai]

Semi related: Why the heck does everyone use Toma to pull instead of OP? OP has more threat for a 1st action. Always seemed like gimping yourself for no reason.

I'll use OP as an opener when they give us the old animation back.

#OLDOPMATTERS

[347SPECTRE]

Semi related: Why the heck does everyone use Toma to pull instead of OP? OP has more threat for a 1st action. Always seemed like gimping yourself for no reason.

My guess is because it has a longer range

[Altan_Haragin]

Where are you getting this idea that Warriors are the "DPS tank" and Paladins are the "DEF tank"? And where does that put Dark Knights? Are they the "in the middle" tank?

The damage each of the tanks are able to do right now is pretty close, so there's no point in fussing over it.

Also, boosting Warrior damage even further would automatically make them the best tank and wouldn't be fair to the other two.

Actually yes the DRK should be the middle. Yeah tanks take damage but the point of having three classses isn’t merely aesthetics. It should also have to do with gameplay. DRK use to be best for mitigating magic damage but Paladin took that too...

[Aana]

My guess is because it has a longer range

Obviously it has more range but that's irrelevant. As a pulling tank, you should be the 1st action on the boss. So every pull is (OP/Toma)>Wait 2.5>Heavy swing. You aren't going to somehow get more hits faster.

So just take 1 more step towards the mob and get +300 pot enmity. If you need the range to get that add in a dungeon whatever. But for single target raid/boss pulls you are just throwing away enmity on the most crucial point in a fight to get enmity (the 1st 20 seconds).

It doesn't make any sense.

[Claire_Pendragon]

Most people dont realize the range on overpower, and assume its just facepulling.
As for me, I havent touched WAR in 4.0, or tanking much in general, so I havent looked at the current threat values, but Id imagine AoEs are still the highest threat gains on a single GCD< w/o a built up chain.

The only issue I woudl then see, is that you have to aggro the boss by running into range for overpower, which does mean the fight has already started before you landed the attack, and your DPS are now hitting the boss before you.
But then again, Maybe im wrong, and overpower can reach w/o aggroing the boss.

for O3S, and O4S, the initial pull of the tank, being off by even 0.3s is enough to drastically mess up my rotation. (though lag/ping are semi part of the reason too, I think I could get my rotation off, and CDs on CD in time, w/o putting them on hold for mechanics, if i was getting better ping/no lag. But its just easier to have the tank hit the boss when the countdown timer hits 0, rather than before or after)

[Scyn]

LOL at people who think warriors actually need anything. I guess the 3.X OP warrior mains want to get back to that alpha tank status.

[Kabooa]

Obviously it has more range but that's irrelevant. As a pulling tank, you should be the 1st action on the boss. So every pull is (OP/Toma)>Wait 2.5>Heavy swing. You aren't going to somehow get more hits faster.

So just take 1 more step towards the mob and get +300 pot enmity. If you need the range to get that add in a dungeon whatever. But for single target raid/boss pulls you are just throwing away enmity on the most crucial point in a fight to get enmity (the 1st 20 seconds).

It doesn't make any sense.

It's like half the range. There are certain bosses where the encounter starting half a second early for any reason can throw off a myriad of things, let alone if the boss split-second aggros someone that's not you and moves off position.

If you aren't losing threat in either case, you use Tomahawk, because it hits harder.

[FallenWings]

LOL at people who think warriors actually need anything. I guess the 3.X OP warrior mains want to get back to that alpha tank status.

Not that I agree with the thread, infact I would much prefer the opposite for personal reasons that have little relevance to balance, but just because a class is in a better spot than another doesn't mean it's banned from asking for changes.

I mean the hostility to your fellow players doesn't really add any merit to you other than making you nothing more than a self rigtheous, petty and salty PLD main.

[Claire_Pendragon]

Not that I agree with the thread, infact I would much prefer the opposite for personal reasons that have little relevance to balance, but just because a class is in a better spot than another doesn't mean it's banned from asking for changes.

I mean the hostility to your fellow players doesn't really add any merit to you other than making you nothing more than a self rigtheous, petty and salty PLD main.

most of us are petty salty DRKs, not PLDs.

And its only because WAR and DRK were in a position to argue which was better than the other.
Where as now, its clear which is better.

(EDIT: It's kind of funny though. Some people who dont know the situation will argue that DRK still isnt any better than, or worse than, current WAR. They will also say that current WAR isnt any better or worse than PLD. Saying they are comparable to eachtoher, with different weaknesses and strengths. But those same people will then say that DRK and PLD are NOT comparable though, that PLD is broken compared to DRK. I'm like, how is it DRK = WAR = PLD, but DRK < PLD? I think you don't understand how the situation works lol...)