4.18 update discussion

[Zeonsilt]

It's definitely something you play by ear. If you can't wait for a Chaser, or if there's an opportunity to flank them, take it.

Thats what was good in Rival Wings. You adjust your objective on the go.
However, most of the time people either won't communicate, ignore objectives or simply troll (not about people, who waste BJs, but more on those who take Opressors and start shooting at people).

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Attack Oppressors really irritate me. It's one thing that people want to give up and roll over, but wasting an Oppressor slot to do that just sets me off.

At that point you can call me Lochs Valeria, cause I'd get real salty real quick.

[RiyahArp]

MCH has very little downsides to attacking mechs, same as bard. If you are melee, or a caster, you can't chase or fight mechs anywhere near as effectively, and are more vulnerable when you try to close or attack. The ranged physical jobs are the best dps in RW with very little downsides or need to commit and can make strategies like that work. Even with gap closers, it's a lot easier to disrupt other archetypes and nail them, especially since many times closing means being cut off from the rest of your team.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

We also hit like a melee at range. As much as I enjoy that, that again calls SE's semblance of "Balance" into question.

Sophia must be screaming in agony right now. . .

[Wintersandman]

r caster, you can't chase or fight mechs anywhere near as effectively.

SMN and BLM can all attack on the move and the oppressors move so slow you can easily setup and turret if you position yourself properly. Instant cast Ruin III? Fester, Energy Drain, Death Flare, Ahk Morn. BLM can chain cast forever and then setup and Fire IV an oppressor.

I find them just as effective as BRD and MCH.

[Theodric]

Thats what was good in Rival Wings. You adjust your objective on the go.
However, most of the time people either won't communicate, ignore objectives or simply troll (not about people, who waste BJs, but more on those who take Opressors and start shooting at people).

*Immature snicker*

[Lauront]

SMN and BLM can all attack on the move and the oppressors move so slow you can easily setup and turret if you position yourself properly. Instant cast Ruin III? Fester, Energy Drain, Death Flare, Ahk Morn. BLM can chain cast forever and then setup and Fire IV an oppressor.

I find them just as effective as BRD and MCH.

As effective as a job that can keep up its full damage rotation without having to worry about positioning? Right...

SMN may be closer to BRD/MCH but BLM will suffer some loss of dps if they need to reposition. BLM can attack on the move but hardly as effectively, barring occasional Thunder procs or Swiftcast... Just enough so to maintain Enochean. I mean you can posit idealised positioning circumstances but it still makes them less effective vs a job that does not even require this. Nvm RDM, which is ironically even less mobile in some ways...

[Wintersandman]

BLM can attack on the move but hardly as effectively, barring occasional Thunder procs or Swiftcast... Just enough so to maintain Enochean. I mean you can posit idealized positioning circumstances but it still makes them less effective vs a job that does not even require this. Nvm RDM, which is ironically even less mobile in some ways...

Oppressors move so slow that you can easily out run them and can easily setup to turret fire IV's which is way more effective than BRD/MCH/SMN have to offer. I have never had an issue with BLM in RW and being able to take down mechs. You have 2950 potency (includes DoT potency and emp arrow) with BRD over 5 seconds without including OGCD's (As they may not be up) vs BLM which is 2000 potency without thunder or potentially 5500 potency if you can get off two fire IV's.

So it isn't too much of a loss to reposition as you can keep 2000 potency up just walking around.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I gave RW another go just now, and came to a quick conclusion:

In an effort to make matches go faster, SE, please understand you didn't do this. Matches ran long because people were still pretty new, they often didn't take advantage of opportunities or momentum when gained (often in lieu of overprioritizing the generator), OR people were just riding out the clock if in the lead.

What you've done now however is create a situation where the team with an exposed core is now forced into desperate defense, such to the point that any possible ability to try and make a counterpush is hardly possible. Weakened cannons can't handle the combination of advancing mechs and escorted mammets due to less range and lowered damage, and players are forced to defend if only to maintain what's already generally a losing condition.

Simply put: Where match length was largely a fault of players not exercising good strategy (I've seen matches end QUITE fast when one team makes the right moves and coordinates, and this is even without premade teams), the adjustments now provide near-insurmountable advantage to the aggressor team. If your team is forced into core defense, then so long as you actively defend, you'll never be able to do much else where before there was a bit of breathing room and opportunity, even against a strong enemy push.

That said, I'm sorry but I just can't, and won't support Rival Wings as it currently is. And while I won't actively discourage anyone from Rival Wings, I certainly will not encourage participation, and please know that it is in direct correlation to the erroneous changes you made in 4.18.

[Chevronone]

Instead of a race to the mid (let's face it, Red has the inherent advantage to mid), why not make the middle inaccessible at the start, and its shields lower at a random time - in line with how large ices lit up in Shatter. Then sporadically thru the match the generator deactivates and goes on a short random cool down. I think the inherent disadvantage blue has from claiming the gen at match start is a map design flaw...just as the south base in Shatter was further from spawn causing them to miss out on a few base points (made draws taste even saltier)

The hyperfocusing on mid throughout the match (usually by those who got the meta off Reddit and regurgitate it ad nauseam) just causes so much distraction.