Would you like an in-game parser?

[Legion88]

And how do you know the rotation is good? How do you know what you melded is good? How will you find out if what you want to meld is better or not? A parser outside of endgame.

Yeah, it isn't needed in leveling content. Hell you can play just fine without one period. But being able to compare yourself and track improvements outside endgame helps you know what you are doing when you do hit end game.

A parser in SSS or on dummies, there you can test your melds and rotation.
For casual and leveling content a performance ranking would be sufficient imo.

[XiXiQ]

I still don't know why it can't just give you some personal stats after a battle and maybe some groupings info so you can see what overall the averages for your ilvl are. No-one else gets to see it. If you really aren't interested, then have it turn on/off in the settings.

It seems so basic, I have no idea why SE haven't done it, and why anyone would be against it.

[Ekimmak]

I've only ever met one person who used parsing software for toxic behaviour, but the experience was so unpleasant that I will fight every step of the way against an in-game parser.

[Kyuuen]

You do realise WoW can not be played on PS4? And if I have to get a PC to play a game with a parser I can also get FFXIV and ACT... so I'm sorry, but this is the most useless argument in this whole debate. ^^'

So it's the Devs fault that you bought a copy of the game that doesn't have mod support due to it's platform? Excusing Fallout 4 and Skyrim, what games allow mod support on console? I can assure you it's not many.. if any beyond those two.

BTW XI was also on consoles... and miraculously they seemed to get by without parsers on console, what's your excuse? (I can be condescending to, it really isn't that hard)

[DeaconMoore]

A parser in SSS or on dummies, there you can test your melds and rotation.
For casual and leveling content a performance ranking would be sufficient imo.

Ok, so I just did a dungeon and it told me I got an A- at the end. What exactly does that even mean though? How far off am I from an A or A+? Was I almost a B+? Was it just a lucky string of crits that one fight that pushed me there? How do I find out? Parser is how. A general ranking grade is just epeen stroking, it doesn't really tell you much. The actual numbers tell you what's going on.

[Selova]

snip.

I just wanted to chime in on a few points here. The first being that leveling does nothing to teach you what your rotation is, there is no tutorial on how your job is supposed to function. If you are someone that doesn't look up guides on how a job is supposed to play or at the very least read the tooltips on your abilities, something that quite a few people already don't do given how often the topic of people not using aoe's in large trash pulls comes up, chances are they won't ever learn how their job is supposed to function or even play at a decent level because they can't be bothered doing any level of research because "It's their sub" and they will play how they wan't.


The second point is that practice dummies are a terrible and flawed metric to gauge someones overall performance. I'm talking about your ability to push the damage required on a fight on top of executing all the mechanics perfectly, since the dummy is just a stationary target where you have a time limit to do as much damage that is required to pass the enrage. The only way to accurately improve your performance on a fight to fight basis is by having a tool to measure how much damage your doing, what mistakes you made and what you could have done better, while you are progressing on the actual encounter itself aka a parser.

At the end of the day, we all have our own definition of what we view as relaxing and fun when we play mmos. I personally like having a tool that let's me see how much I'm contributing to the group, regardless of what level of content it is. While it may not be needed, there are those of us that get enjoyment out of playing our jobs as optimally as we can and even more rewarding when you are performing well alongside others. Cheers.

[Legion88]

Ok, so I just did a dungeon and it told me I got an A- at the end. What exactly does that even mean though? How far off am I from an A or A+? Was I almost a B+? Was it just a lucky string of crits that one fight that pushed me there? How do I find out? Parser is how. A general ranking grade is just epeen stroking, it doesn't really tell you much. The actual numbers tell you what's going on.

Maybe you are right with your stand.
I can only talk from my pov and for the lower endgame it should be personal only.
So you can analyze your own performance without being able to judge others.
For preformed parties an option to make it a whole party parse would also be a good point.
I think this would be a good middleground we two can agree on.

For high endgame (Extreme, Savage and Ultimate) I think a parse needs no discussion, it's a must.
Not only to analyze your own performance also to analyze party synergies and weaknesses, especially in statics.

I just wanted to chime in on a few points here. The first being that leveling does nothing to teach you what your rotation is, there is no tutorial on how your job is supposed to function. If you are someone that doesn't look up guides on how a job is supposed to play or at the very least read the tooltips on your abilities, something that quite a few people already don't do given how often the topic of people not using aoe's in large trash pulls comes up, chances are they won't ever learn how their job is supposed to function or even play at a decent level because they can't be bothered doing any level of research because "It's their sub" and they will play how they wan't.


The second point is that practice dummies are a terrible and flawed metric to gauge someones overall performance. I'm talking about your ability to push the damage required on a fight on top of executing all the mechanics perfectly, since the dummy is just a stationary target where you have a time limit to do as much damage that is required to pass the enrage. The only way to accurately improve your performance on a fight to fight basis is by having a tool to measure how much damage your doing, what mistakes you made and what you could have done better, while you are progressing on the actual encounter itself aka a parser.

At the end of the day, we all have our own definition of what we view as relaxing and fun when we play mmos. I personally like having a tool that let's me see how much I'm contributing to the group, regardless of what level of content it is. While it may not be needed, there are those of us that get enjoyment out of playing our jobs as optimally as we can and even more rewarding when you are performing well alongside others. Cheers.

You see people not learning while leveling, reading tooltips or guides wont learn with a parser, because they don't care or can't be bothered.

For your second thought, dummies are a very good tool to memorize and practice your rotation, also to measure the performance of different meld settings. The application from dummy to the "real" fight has to be in the fight of course and I never denied this.

For your last point, yes, we have all our own definition, but nothing prevents you to play your job at highest performance without a live display of your parse or the parse of others.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

1.Go to reddit.
2. read one of the many endless complaining posts about how bad players are
3. notice that most of them are about raid level content.
4. there you go.

I suppose we just have to stay perfectly silent lest we hurt someone's feeling then? Reddit evokes the same policies this forum does: no names. Therefore, any complaints are entirely anonymous. Sometimes people just want to vent about the bad players they've encountered hence the most popular thread is Tales of the Duty Finder. Coincidentally, most complaints come from dungeons or 24 mans. You know, the content we're not advocating a parse for. It's almost like people simply dislike bad players in general regardless of where their own skill level falls.

[MoroMurasaki]

It's almost like people simply dislike bad players in general regardless of where their own skill level falls.

Exactly!

I am a self-proclaimed filthy casual. IRL keeps me from participating in O3S-Ultimate where (imo) you need a static to survive. I have been very active in the 'Tales from the Duty Finder' thread since I joined this forum and I think I've got perhaps 2 complaints about O1S and a few EX primal posts amongst my 50+ stories added to that thread.

I just don't think parsers would have helped most of those situations. Maybe they would have helped me fine-tune my DPS but in a single target situation my rock throwing on WHM likely isn't saving the day alone.

Know where a parser can make a world of difference? Any fight with a hard enrage. Any fight I can't reliably solo heal. Any fight like EX or Savage where optimization isn't only the difference in clear time but also the difference in whether or not you'll clear at all.

Parsing isn't always the answer... but sometimes it is. There is no argument against parsing EX+ content that holds up under scrutiny. The answer to 'do we need a parser?' is a clear and resounding 'yes!', it's only the fact that many people have their heads stuck in the sand that has held us back for so long.

[Selova]

snip.

There is a contradiction here. If someone can't be bothered to do 5 minutes worth of research on how their job plays, then no amount of practicing on a stationary dummy is going to help them improve. The only thing the SSS dummies do is let you know if you are capable of doing enough damage to beat the enrage, it's more of a tool geared towards PS4 players since they have no way of seeing how they are performing on a encounter other than word of mouth.


It also can't give you a accurate representation of differen't meld builds since it is incapable of tracking crits and damage modifiers, all of which a parser is capable of doing. I also never stated it prevented me from doing anything, just that i enjoy having a visual gauge of how im doing in comparison to others and what i can adjust to improve, that's it. Your apprehensiveness towards them seems to stem from some irrational level of fear of people constantly griefing you if SE was to implement their own parser, which is nothing more than conjecture. Even mmo's with their own parsers don't display the level of griefing that people assume would happen if FFXIV got it's own parsing tool. Cheers.