New info on housing plots, PVP, squadron changes

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Players: WE WANT THIS!!
GameDevs: That would be really hard to code and time consuming to implement with our current limitations.
Players: YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!! THE OTHER GAME DID IT ALREADY!
GameDevs: They are built on an entirely different base and use different equipment that monitors and transfers the data differently.
Players: YOU SHOULD JUST DO IT THEIR WAY!

Tell you what. We'll stop calling bullshit on their excuses when SE cuts the subscription costs in half. If games far older than FFXIV can make these adjustments, what's stopping SE? It took four years for them to even mention overhauling the archaic glamour system yet WoW accomplished that in 2011, one year following 1.0's release and two years after ARR launched. WoW, comparatively, runs on systems designed thirteen years ago. It's also widely known XIV has a limited budget so SE can fund other projects despite it being their most profitable venture by a mile. So we're not necessarily faulting Yoshida himself, though some of his more recent discussions have been... questionable.

If they are going to charge a competitive price and continuously add stuff to the cash shop, we're well within our right to complain when features keep getting pushed aside. It's especially bad when they advertised Shirogane as a selling point for Stormblood and it became a disaster.

[Krotoan]

Tell you what. We'll stop calling bullshit on their excuses when SE cuts the subscription costs in half. ...

so.. unreasonable demand and comparison to an entirely different game again. WOW was built, in house, by Blizzard. FFXIV was sub-contracted to hell to a company that originally called chocobos "horse-birds" and used a cut and paste landscape to try and give a feeling of expanse. Bedrock foundation vs filled in swampland.

Yes they have a limited budget, we know this.. so why keep asking for things we know the bigwigs aren't going to change? They aren't going to listen to forum chatter, only the bottom line matters to those people. You want a hard hitting vote? unsub. Not even being sarcastic or mean, it's the ONLY thing that will change that particular problem.

Yes the glamour system sucks. GW2 is the only game I've seen get that entirely right: account wide, unlocked forever, free dye use forever. I would be super duper happy if that happened. But once again. whole different game with different infrastructure and coding. I don't think asking for a Maserati engine in my nissan leaf is a great idea. .. AND they're overhauling it like we asked, so lets see where that goes before condemning it shall we?


well within your rights to ask for whatever, sure. But keep in mind reasonable expectations. We aren't getting *insert other games system for thing* anytime soon. We're going to get SE branded , limited resource, "please look forward to it", thing.

There is NOTHING in the cash-shop you need to play the game , and it's debatable that you'd even need anything from there to enjoy the game . This game costs about as much as a netflix subscription or a single fairly priced meal for an entire month. That's enough value for me , if it's not for you I suggest you , once again, stop paying for something you don't think is worth what you're paying for.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

so.. unreasonable demand and comparison to an entirely different game again.

Except it isn't unreasonable. Their initial solution to housing was more expensive FC rooms, and when asked about larger sizes outright acknowledged they never even considered it. Regardless, how about just being candid. The devs are notorious for saying very little, which only fuels the fire. If housing is such an issue, don't market it with your expansion. Those frustrations are only amplified when they specifically relocated the systems only for them and the launcher to implode, causing the disaster that was Shirogane. I don't doubt there are limits to what they can do, but their word isn't the gospel either. We've had plenty of instances where resources were simply wasted on pointless additions like LoV and Diadem.

And I only brought up the cash shop because it's another source of income, thus people are disgruntled when they're given nebulous responses when asking for improvements to the current systems. Hell, people want Lyse's outfit to be dyeable. Are we going to argue that's just too difficult?

[Krotoan]

Except it isn't unreasonable....?

It's unreasonable to request a company slash their income from a game in half, yes. That's what I was referring to.

a good read about why we don't hear much about the actual process:
http://comicbook.com/gaming/2017/09/...yre-working/#1

We don't know how hard it is, and they're afraid to tell us because as a rule , playerbases are toxic as heck when even given a tiny bit of information... as is demonstrated by the flood of negativity we got when they simply announced: we're working on it and these are the basics of what we are trying to do.

[RiyahArp]

Players: WE WANT THIS!!
GameDevs: That would be really hard to code and time consuming to implement with our current limitations.
Players: YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!! THE OTHER GAME DID IT ALREADY!
GameDevs: They are built on an entirely different base and use different equipment that monitors and transfers the data differently.
Players: YOU SHOULD JUST DO IT THEIR WAY!

It doesn't matter.

Here's the thing about being in a job; you have to deliver a product. No one wants to hear how hard it is to make the product, or the vagaries of your code, or what have you. You either deliver on the features you promised, or you lose trust. In this case, offering player housing that everyone has a chance to have. And at the design phase, you need people to ask you "is what you want to make feasible?" Like if they had made instanced apartments instead of houses, that's feasible, and apartments really work well for single player housing. Or if they did .dot hack's instanced guild halls. But for some reason, devs never seem to have these guys. So we get features that they cn't support or don't foresee serious issues with.Saying how hard it is doesn't change the fact you screwed up in the first place by not thinking.

[Krotoan]

It doesn't matter.

Here's the thing about being in a job; you have to deliver a product....

I am in no way saying their system is the right way. Yes, in the end they are selling a product and nobody cares how hard it was to make. However there are a lot of people giving absolutely useless feedback such as, "this game did it better. Do that." with no idea of how insane that request is. Asking a pizza place to stock a particular type of pepperoni because the other pizzeria does and it tastes good isn't the same as telling a pizza place they should have beef wellington because some other restaurant does. There are methods of preparation and equipment needed to make that work that just aren't present and likely aren't within budget to acquire or implement. In this case the pepperoni would be say "hey you should put green armor in the game" VS the beef wellington being "Hey you should instance all housing and add terraces to apartments". I will say though I think they're misunderstanding what we want terraces for. I don't think the population of apt dwellers cares that much about outside decorations so much as being able to crossbreed plants.

Once again though, if a product isn't what you want, don't buy it. They ARE responsible for putting out a reasonable implementation of promises made when presenting the product (agreed that housing was badly done) , but we are responsible for deciding that "hey, this isn't worth it, you're not getting my money".

They aren't scrapping the housing system. Enough people are using it and will continue to use it that it's highly unlikely they'll ever trash it . Apartments work well, and only on the most populated servers are they all used up. We have a framework that they're scaling up (remember we also get more apartments with new wards) so I'm hopeful they're getting the idea and people will support more reasonable requests like instanced greenhouses and FC workshops instead of asking for something completely out of scope and new acquisition intensive like reworking the entire system.


... are you asking for an apology? you want them to admit it sucks?

[FallenArisen0990]

You know what I want? Bring back the Chocobo Glitch!! Best Glitch they went and patched...

[Kaethra]

Too complex of a system to modify for housing...

Everyone forget about 1.0 to 2.0?

Instanced Housing is a cakewalk. Also I my wallet is ready for larger premium homes that use the feature. Money talks, the rest walks. NEVER underestimate what players are willing to spend on housing they can use. And judging by the number of RPers and decorators I've seen in FFXIV, SE is sitting on a literal goldmine.

Just got to get through marketing and execs. They'll simply tell the devs to make it happen. Or find one who can.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

It's unreasonable to request a company slash their income from a game in half, yes. That's what I was referring to.

a good read about why we don't hear much about the actual process:
http://comicbook.com/gaming/2017/09/...yre-working/#1

We don't know how hard it is, and they're afraid to tell us because as a rule , playerbases are toxic as heck when even given a tiny bit of information... as is demonstrated by the flood of negativity we got when they simply announced: we're working on it and these are the basics of what we are trying to do.

I was being intentionally hyperbolic towards the excuse "we can't do all this things other games older than ours can". That had nothing to do with the devs and was directed towards SE itself. If they're going to charge competitive prices yet not deliver a comparable product, people are going to take issue.

And while I don't deny forums can breed some nasty comments, that article comes across a little... poorly. Perhaps it's simply my interpretation, but it sounds more like he only wants positive feedback. Furthermore, negativity and toxicity are not the same thing. Neither here nor reddit have been toxic for the most part in regards to housing, just highly critical. Being told, "we're working on" feels a touch hollow when this issue has persisted for over a year and nothing has been done. They had to know people would mass log in—it's happened every single time new wards are added. Coincidentally, when all regions voiced their outrage, we got an immediate response.

[Krotoan]

And while I don't deny forums can breed some nasty comments, that article comes across a little... poorly. Perhaps it's simply my interpretation, but it sounds more like he only wants positive feedback. Furthermore, negativity and toxicity are not the same thing. Neither here nor reddit have been toxic for the most part in regards to housing, just highly critical. Being told, "we're working on" feels a touch hollow when this issue has persisted for over a year and nothing has been done. They had to know people would mass log in—it's happened every single time new wards are added. Coincidentally, when all regions voiced their outrage, we got an immediate response.

I'm with you on the "what did they think was going to happen?" part for housing release day. It's happened every time and will continue to happen if they do these "starter gate" type of releases. This is one of the things they say they're addressing though, so fingers crossed.

I didn't get "don't tell me negative things" from that post though:
"If you can't contribute something positive to the conversation, or there's a chance you're speaking out of blind ignorance, just find something else to do."
Doesn't mean "only say nice things". It means contribute. Suggest a solution out of educated experience. "DO WHAT THIS GAME DOES" is not helpful. "I like the way this works in this game, maybe we could do this similar thing that works with the established mechanics of our own game?" is. "I don't like this thing" is feedback, but not all that useful.

I dunno about you, but I see a hell of a lot of toxicity in these forums, "lol the game sucks and is dying, SE white knight go suck more SE D(&^" pops up a lot. I always ask why those people are still here and haven't gotten a reasonable answer yet. People attack each other, insult each other and tell them how dumb they are for thinking some way without any sort of counter argument or proposed solution to the problem. They use the forum to put others down and contribute nothing. "LOL NO THAT'S STUPID". Not criticism, just an insult.