How PL'ing killed FFXIV.

[Cursive]

Moreover, these "hardcore" fights like Ifrit are very difficult when played as intended. People shun this difficulty and find loopholes whenever they can (Kraken Club zerging and hiding behind walls for AV in FFXI, requiring Sentinel to tank Hellfire instead of downing the nails in FFXIV) and, in a game where multiclassing is expected, this desire for max level is intensified to extremes.

av was never meant to be beaten...even after the first kill absolutely nothing dropped, which lead the top players to believe there was no loot table for av...meaning it was never meant to be killed...the fact it was killed was pretty stunning imo, regardless of the methods(s).

what se intends is usually a grey area and players will always find a better more efficient way of doing things. saying that way isn't a legitimate strategy is ridiculous...why would you want to make anything harder when you can make it easier...that is the whole point of developing a strategy to kill something.

[Xianghua]

av was never meant to be beaten...even after the first kill absolutely nothing dropped, which lead the top players to believe there was no loot table for av...meaning it was never meant to be killed...the fact it was killed was pretty stunning imo, regardless of the methods(s).

what se intends is usually a grey area and players will always find a better more efficient way of doing things. saying that way isn't a legitimate strategy is ridiculous...why would you want to make anything harder when you can make it easier...that is the whole point of developing a strategy to kill something.

Seriously? Have you ever been to sea? have you ever killed anything worth of value in XI? Most of my 1st NM kills resulted in nothing dropping or complete junk. That didn't make me assume it dropped nothing. Just it had a horrible drop rate like everything else. saying it wasn't meant to be beaten is rather ridiculous. Just because something is hard and actually requires you to think. Doesn't mean its not meant to be beaten.

[Krausus]

all these moral/ethics post make me lol I feel like they are the church telling me I'm going to hell for not attending

[Hanemakikaze]

Seriously? Have you ever been to sea? have you ever killed anything worth of value in XI? Most of my 1st NM kills resulted in nothing dropping or complete junk. That didn't make me assume it dropped nothing. Just it had a horrible drop rate like everything else. saying it wasn't meant to be beaten is rather ridiculous. Just because something is hard and actually requires you to think. Doesn't mean its not meant to be beaten.

There is a difference between challenge & impossible, AV was indeed impossible unless you cheated back in the day. While I agree just because you don't see a drop it wasn't meant to be beaten isn't true, SE definitely did not want AV beaten. They removed the bug that even made it possible to kill it immediately after it was found out, thus once again making him dominant unkillable alpha NM of XI for a very long time.

[Xianghua]

There is a difference between challenge & impossible, AV was indeed impossible unless you cheated back in the day. While I agree just because you don't see a drop it wasn't meant to be beaten isn't true, SE definitely did not want AV beaten. They removed the bug that even made it possible to kill it immediately after it was found out, thus once again making him dominant unkillable alpha NM of XI for a very long time.

Part of what made him unbeatable for so long was the narrow minds of the community. It was always throw KC DRKs at it or throw SAMs at it. None ever stopped to think about efficient new ways of killing him. Truthfully the way I think SE intended to kill him was to make Linkshell's work together. To try that out and stop the pointless fighting. However they would rather fight and argue over pointless things then actually work together. Most shell's never even went after AV simply because of the stories. So if anything it was the community that made him a lot more difficult to beat then he should of been.

[Jennestia]

Part of what made him unbeatable for so long was the narrow minds of the community. It was always throw KC DRKs at it or throw SAMs at it. None ever stopped to think about efficient new ways of killing him. Truthfully the way I think SE intended to kill him was to make Linkshell's work together.

Which is exactly how the first legit kill of AV was done, multiple Linkshells working together. I believe it was mostly western shells that exploited bugs and and whatnot to kill it, i.e the SCH Modus Vertias exploit, which required bots or exceptional timing as it required an alliance of SCHs to have perfect timing to turn 1 Helix into a 100,000 dmg nuke+DoT.

[MistyMew]

pl happens in pretty much any game.
pl can never destroy a game, the player may suffer for a time not knowing his/her capabilities or job well enough, but in time, they will be the same as anyone else.

im not for nor against pl. im levelling in a simple duo and thats how i prefer it.

if some pl, then to each his own.

my way of levelling is MY choice and preferance. i think if se doesnt ban this type of levelling, if they agree with it, then really............deal with it. PL exists in every game and it has never ever made a game go belly up. ever.
pl or not i will be paying to enjoy the game in my way as everyone else should too. what the op stated he would tell his friends about playing ff is not even remotely how i would describe it. everyone has a diff point of view.

i can live with PL, but if anyone cant, at present since it is "ok" by SE then maybe take a break or try another game that has no PL...........oh wait.... there are none

[Hanemakikaze]

Part of what made him unbeatable for so long was the narrow minds of the community. It was always throw KC DRKs at it or throw SAMs at it. None ever stopped to think about efficient new ways of killing him. Truthfully the way I think SE intended to kill him was to make Linkshell's work together. To try that out and stop the pointless fighting. However they would rather fight and argue over pointless things then actually work together. Most shell's never even went after AV simply because of the stories. So if anything it was the community that made him a lot more difficult to beat then he should of been.

Not sure if serious...you don't make a high profile NM like that where you require different linkshells to get a kill(and endgame linkshells always had bad blood with each other 80% of the time), no one was narrow minded, AV dropped the best gear in game for a long while. This would cause huge problems, and ridiculous amount of drama over drop priorities which is definitely not pointless. As for throwing SAMs & DRKs at it, that was clearly the most effective way everyone could think of after trying many different methods, come on now lets be real here. To sum that up, as about everything else about XI, AV was another terrible design/direction choice.

[Molly_Millions]

Lets create another thread on PLing, I don't think everyone knows that you all don't like it yet.

[Baxter]

There are such things as too harsh of a level curve. I think xi was pretty unforgiving when it first came out, but I loved it. It took me nearly a year to get my first job to 75, but the thing about XI was the path was littered with milestones, and landmarks.

Remember kazham keys, ranked missions, rse dungeon quests, cap items, af pieces when hardly any NA were post lv50? I could go on, but truly there is no need as anyone who has played xi knows exactly what I'm talking about. In my opinion, these landmarks took away from the repetition often referred to as 'the grind'(I refer to it as a side of player progression) by adding mile markers along the way in your journey. For me, most of them were very fun, fond, memorable, and even aggravating at times.

This game simply lacks an 'along the way', and is in desperate need of that. Once gained, I think the PL'ing issue will really just fall into the arms of those who do not want to experience the game on any level, and want to rush to end game. I think that's fine. ..but for now, PL'ing could kill off your potential playerbase when there is very little to do at either end of the cap.