DPS is the job of DPS.

[HyoMinPark]

Depends on the tank. DRK in particular can keep both Grit and Darkside up, which results in no penalty to damage, but no increase either. They stance dance by dropping Grit and activating Blood Weapon to increase their damage.

Even if Darkside cancels out Grit’s damage penalty, it’s still a penalty. It’s net-zero with Grit+Darkside; it’s +20% with just Darkside. Darkside doesn’t require Grit to be used, and there’s never a reason now to not have Darkside up 100% of the time since they removed the steady MP drain from it. So it’s still a technically a penalty.

EDIT:

Uhm...there are still damage penalties in grit.

I never said there wasn't.

You technically did:

Depends on the tank. DRK in particular can keep both Grit and Darkside up, which results in no penalty to damage, but no increase either.

[InfiniDragon]

That's damage dealt by the war.

Yep. That's the damage dealt by the Warrior reducing by 20%, not the damage dealt by enemies to the Warrior.

Just making sure it was clear to the healer talking about it above.

[HoodRat]

Yep. That's the damage dealt by the Warrior reducing by 20%, not the damage dealt by enemies to the Warrior.

Just making sure it was clear to the healer talking about it above.

Oh, it looked like you bolded the reduce damage dealt part, but it was already bolded. I can't brain anymore.

[Gemina]

I'm talking about those magic buttons tanks have that make them take less damage for a period of time. I must admit, I'm surprised you don't seem to be aware of them given the fact you've "been healing tanks for a long time."

Oh, you mean the ones 80% of DF tanks don't use? So I should assume you're talking about them in the same way I should assume my DF tanks will use them?

I'm surprised you even play this game.

Tanks lose out on more dps than healers do by staying in tank stance as much as possible. However, if the people in your group know what they're doing, you can have both tanks in dps stance the whole fight and still have both healers focus on dpsing.

Thanks for pointing out the same thing I did captain obvious. Anymore in-game lessons you wish to enlighten me with?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

What I asked though, is what is the other tank doing to cause 1000 more DPS than the other tank if they are both mitigating? If the answer is one is in tank stance, and the other is not, than I get that. And that is precisely why I brought up that the healer likely has to give up their own DPS to keep this tank up.

Healer DPS on single targets will never out-damage tanks. The potential loss they suffer having to use an extra GCD is offset by the tank not losing 20% on their entire arsenal. This assumes the healers even loses anything as many attacks can be planned around HoTs.

[Gemina]

Nope. It isn't accurate at all. Warriors get no defensive bonus from their tank stance, just better heals and more HP. the eHP works out to be about the same as the other two's tank stances in most cases, but Warriors, absolutely, 100% do NOT get defense buffs from Defiance. They'd be walking fortresses in tank stance if they did and also had more HP than the other two tanks.

EDIT: On topic, if you're in content that matters to you to clear, DPS is everyone's job. Enmity is everyone's job also, while we're on the topic.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. I actually see I read it wrong, and it is the damage they deal not receive.

[Misurugi]

i really should stop looking at these threads when I see um. They just... aggravate the unholy hell out of me. I can tank with out tank stance... Tank buster, WHAP. What the hell you stupid healer how come you didn't heal me... You were hit by a tank buster when not in tank stance. Or, Tank grabs lots of mobs and dies because as a healer I have to wait until tank has command of aggro before I do anything or... OOPS. I died by trying to keep the tank alive... STUPID HEALER WHY DIDN'T YOU WAIT FOR ME TO GET AGGRO. You had less then 20% health left. I didn't have a choice but to bene you. I been on every side of this argument. Job comes first. Everything else secondary. If the healer is having a hard time keeping you, THE TANK, alive while you decide to stroke your micro sized E-pen. Put tank stance on. Healers. Find a compromise. If their's a lul in damage being delt do a bit of dps. rather have mp incase the shit hits the fan. Dps... Go nuts. Do what you do best. Don't make it your priority. Make a point. Ok you have less then... 40% mp left. Ok time to start thinking about conservation tactics via letting your dps go and think about healing. Shut the fuck up you don't know how to play healer... Dude... I play every class. You want to give constructive criticism after you see me at work... Go for it. My job comes first. If I'm the tank. I'll tank. I'll stance dance during lul points after a tank buster and I know I have time to switch back to tank stance for the next one. As a healer.... I'll do both healing and dps tell my mp gets to about 50%.. Then.. I drop my dps for healing until my mp gets back to about 80% then I'll dps again. And dps.. Do what you do best. Flame em if you want that's just how I play. And so far. No one has bothered to contradict my style. If it works for you. Go for it. I just wish this whole toxicity of put your balls to the walls for dps would stop.

[InfiniDragon]

Thanks for pointing out the same thing I did captain obvious. Anymore in-game lessons you wish to enlighten me with?

Well, not to be rude, but you sort of did say that:

The tank's mitigation allows me to DPS more as healer since I can spend my gcds on rocks instead of cure 2s, which in turn makes up the 1000 dps difference, and no mobs are trying to eat my face.

In any content that isn't over-geared the offense of one is traded by the offense of the other, especially 4-man.

Which is not correct. In any content other than 4 man (multiple mobs), tank DPS will be punished harder than a healer can make up for with their own DPS if the tank sits in stance. What Bourne_Endeavor said is correct.

[HyoMinPark]

i really should stop looking at these threads when I see um. They just... aggravate the unholy hell out of me. I can tank with out tank stance... Tank buster, WHAP. What the hell you stupid healer how come you didn't heal me... You were hit by a tank buster when not in tank stance. Or, Tank grabs lots of mobs and dies because as a healer I have to wait until tank has command of aggro before I do anything or... OOPS. I died by trying to keep the tank alive... STUPID HEALER WHY DIDN'T YOU WAIT FOR ME TO GET AGGRO. You had less then 20% health left. I didn't have a choice but to bene you. I been on every side of this argument. Job comes first. Everything else secondary. If the healer is having a hard time keeping you, THE TANK, alive while you decide to stroke your micro sized E-pen. Put tank stance on. Healers. Find a compromise. If their's a lul in damage being delt do a bit of dps. rather have mp incase the shit hits the fan. Dps... Go nuts. Do what you do best.

I mean, you can take tankbusters outside of tank stance—you just need to pop a cooldown and not take it naked with zero mitigation. Tankbusters will still down tanks IN TANK STANCE if they don’t use a cooldown for it. Same thing while pulling: use your cooldowns.. Mass pulls are honestly the only time where tank stance is actually useful and/or needed. For bosses, not so much. And even then, you need to use your cooldowns in addition to tank stance for mass pulls. Tank stance alone will not save you.

Literally none of these discussions involve demanding players sacrifice the role’s primary job (i.e., tanks sacrificing tanking/cooldowns for DPS, healers sacrificing healing for DPS); they just ask that you at least try to do more than the absolute minimum (or, in the case of healer DPS, Always Be Casting as opposed to standing around idle for extended periods of time).

[Misurugi]

Perhaps I didn't fully word it correctly but. Vast majority of the time I run into superman tanks they don't feel the need to use CDs. Gotta increase that dps all the way. And, I have ran into quite alot of ppl who believe that yes.. you should sacrifice for more dps to make it as fast as possible. Them... I tend to get kicked out of those grps. I try to contribute as much as I can. But only as much as I'm able to with out taking away my cushion.