It's past time, Yoshi-P...

[Ilan]

It's time to kill this DPS meta dead. When tanks and healers are getting harassed for doing their stated jobs in an Expert dungeon, something has gone off the rails.

Over-reliance on DPS races in raids has spilled over into all other aspects of the game, and is causing needless stress among people who couldn't give two rats' farts about FFLogs or parses.

When a forum thread stretches 43 pages with wannabe pros relentlessly damage controlling for the DPS meta, something is seriously wrong with the direction of the game.

Tanking and healing need to mean something. That means dispensing with DPS races in favor of high or fast damage to tanks, requiring heightened attention to restoring HP or preventing damage.

Its also an option to stop watching netflix or playing facebook games, stop chatting during a dungeon and just focus on the dungeon itself. If you do all of that you are able to do some dps without any problems except the gear is so bad that the tank dies in an instant or the healer heals baby numbers.

I don't give a rats ass about fflogs in dungeons but i would die of pure boredom if i would just heal or just tank in a dungeon because i'm able to use more than just 3 buttons.

[akaneakki]

Oh I'm not against healer DPS, I just think that the healer DPS rotations are boring as shit, at least for WHM and AST, which means that most of the fight you're basically pressing one button. Haven't played much of SCH but from my limited experience, the balance of DPS/healing skills in their kit feels much better than the other two.

Yeah SCh truely is. I don't like AST too much because it feels too bloaty too me, but SCH is really a good balance between the WHM and AST!

[miraidensetsu]

Doesn't that actually further the point that tank/healer dps is potent and contributes alot?

Yes, sure.

But that raises another questions: Why do you need DPS jobs if a bunch of healers - that's is on the bottom of the DPS numbers - are capable of meeting DPS checks and not hit enrage? And why DPS jobs, that deals way more damage than a healer and a bit more than a tank, don't meet those minimum numbers without the healer's and tank's help? Isn't that not even fishy?

Healers and tanks must give their help, sure. But don't forget that meet DPS check is a DPS's job, not healer's or tank's.

[Hruodig]

Yes, sure.

But that raises another questions: Why do you need DPS jobs if a bunch of healers - that's is on the bottom of the DPS numbers - are capable of meeting DPS checks and not hit enrage? And why DPS jobs, that deals way more damage than a healer and a bit more than a tank, don't meet those minimum numbers without the healer's and tank's help? Isn't that not even fishy?

Healers and tanks must give their help, sure. But don't forget that meet DPS check is a DPS's job, not healer's or tank's.

Because most people don't want to be in content longer than 30 minutes, which is where the dps come in. Also you wouldn't be meeting savage-level dps checks without proper dpses.

DPS checks are everyone's job though. Everyone contributes to dps in this game. There are other games where this isn't the case.

[Sebazy]

wiiiich brings us back to the original purpose of this topic. not IF healers should be dpsing, since we already have cleared this question years ago, BUT if healers should be dpsing this much.

up to 90% dps uptime on a healer is in my eyes not acceptable. this should not be possible.

Absolutely agreed here, I'd love to see disruptive mechanics diverting my attention from just smashing aero/holy as hard and fast as I can. The issue of course is how do so without ruining things for people less geared or mechanically skilled than me.

In all honesty, the only thought I have would be to dabble with CC again much like what we had in the ARR Betas, it was the norm to CC everything due to trash packs being larger and hitting far harder relative to how less geared people were. Juggling a bunch of Repose timers makes it much harder to go nuts with the dps!

But that raises another questions: Why do you need DPS jobs if a bunch of healers - that's is on the bottom of the DPS numbers - are capable of meeting DPS checks and not hit enrage? And why DPS jobs, that deals way more damage than a healer and a bit more than a tank, don't meet those minimum numbers without the healer's and tank's help? Isn't that not even fishy?

Regarding point 1, the bulk of content is tuned to such a low standard that the DPS checks are barely worthy of the word. Thus Shinryu getting killed by 3 people, or mid field raid teams killing O1S on day one of it's release with 20+ deaths. On the flipside, O4S was literally unkillable upon release without a fairly significant amount of healer and tank DPS pitched in.

I've got no qualms with the content, but I think SE need figure out a means of getting a much more progressive difficulty curve going across a wider range of content than what we have now.

[Akor]

If healers and tanks DPS is so much important that without it no one beat enrage, how about turn something like this META?

that would probably be impossible to clear bc no healers would dps and even the tank would stay in tank stance

[Mithron]

I want to contribute significantly DPS no matter what role I play, and I want to do so skillfully and for it to be expected on top of my current jobs and duties. Being able to stance dance and do DPS on tanks/healers is one of my favorite things about this game and a huge reason why I actually play it over other games.

Being a support slave is boring and I do NOT ever want the game to go to that point.

[Sylvina]

I want to contribute significantly DPS no matter what role I play, and I want to do so skillfully and for it to be expected on top of my current jobs and duties. Being able to stance dance and do DPS on tanks/healers is one of my favorite things about this game and a huge reason why I actually play it over other games.

Being a support slave is boring and I do NOT ever want the game to go to that point.

Neither do I but I am sick of idiots who want the healers and tanks to put out silly levels of unrealistic dps. Not everyone plays only one class. the time it takes to get good enouguh at pressing the 30+ buttons each class has at 70 is quite long if you're gonna do 3k dps as a healer or tank. SE still hasn't done enough to close the skill gap on classes and addressing skill bloat is the first step.

[Taika]

Neither do I but I am sick of idiots who want the healers and tanks to put out silly levels of unrealistic dps.

Can you show some examples of situations or forum posts in which healers or tanks are asked to do silly levels of unrealistic DPS?

[Sylvina]

Can you show some examples of situations or forum posts in which healers or tanks are asked to do silly levels of unrealistic DPS?

Not neccesarily referring to the forums but it happens in game plenty.