It's past time, Yoshi-P...

[Hruodig]

Neither do I but I am sick of idiots who want the healers and tanks to put out silly levels of unrealistic dps. Not everyone plays only one class. the time it takes to get good enouguh at pressing the 30+ buttons each class has at 70 is quite long if you're gonna do 3k dps as a healer or tank. SE still hasn't done enough to close the skill gap on classes and addressing skill bloat is the first step.

What is unrealistic dps to you? How long does it take you to get good enough at pressing "30 buttons" on any class? Really it just takes some time on a dummy practicing your opener and rotation everyday, but apparently that's too much effort for some people.

Skill gap will always be an issue as long as A) People don't care, and B) People don't press buttons. You can make the rotation one button that's called "Do Damage", and you'll still have people slacking just because they don't think it's important to chase the gcd.

[Taika]

Not neccesarily referring to the forums but it happens in game plenty.

Funny, I've played a healer in this game since 1.0 and not once have I been asked to do an unrealistic amount of DPS. I have, however been asked to do unrealistic amounts of healing, latest case only two weeks ago.

[Sylvina]

What is unrealistic dps to you? How long does it take you to get good enough at pressing "30 buttons" on any class? Really it just takes some time on a dummy practicing your opener and rotation everyday, but apparently that's too much effort for some people.

Skill gap will always be an issue as long as A) People don't care, and B) People don't press buttons. You can make the rotation one button that's called "Do Damage", and you'll still have people slacking just because they don't think it's important to chase the gcd.

The game has skill bloat issues. This is clear. it's 2017 and you don't need a seperate button for every ability. SE made it a little better with the SB changes but they havent done enough. Combos need to be condensed, and more abilities need to share a button when possible.

[Hruodig]

The game has skill bloat issues. This is clear. it's 2017 and you don't need a seperate button for every ability. SE made it a little better with the SB changes but they havent done enough. Combos need to be condensed, and more abilities need to share a button when possible.

Again, this wouldn't help with the dps disparity issue. People still would just refuse to learn rotations, press buttons, and generally put in effort. What's your proposal to fix that? How can se force people to try?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Neither do I but I am sick of idiots who want the healers and tanks to put out silly levels of unrealistic dps. Not everyone plays only one class. the time it takes to get good enouguh at pressing the 30+ buttons each class has at 70 is quite long if you're gonna do 3k dps as a healer or tank. SE still hasn't done enough to close the skill gap on classes and addressing skill bloat is the first step.

Healers scarcely have 20 buttons to press. What are you even talking about? In a dungeon setting, 3k is basically a few Holys. I have topped over 6,000 DPS on WHM. No one is expecting those levels but you should be doing something.

The game has skill bloat issues. This is clear. it's 2017 and you don't need a seperate button for every ability. SE made it a little better with the SB changes but they havent done enough. Combos need to be condensed, and more abilities need to share a button when possible.

Yes, let's just keep dumbing down the game because people can't be arsed to use their brains. Forget subtlety here. If you can't handle pressing 1-2-3 while rotating in a few oGCD, go play another job. I am tired of this bloody hand-holding mentality some people have. I didn't start out an amazing player with orange parses on the first Savage clears. I put in an effort to improve; I'm still improving now. I'm no better than anyone else. So why can't player x do what I did?

[Fyce]

Now...that said. Tanks can do a fair bit of DPS...but this is a bonus...a secondary goal no more no less. UNLESS - the situation calls for it...as in extreme/savage/ultimate's with a well coordinated party. Of course extra Tanks also permit this. Assuming the main tank is doing his job.

Healers should ALSO contribute DPS - but that is again...a secondary task...if the party is doing well - they should be DPS'ing - but only to the point of not compromising their healing job. Too many healers go stupid in this area and end up running out of mana. Cooldowns be damned - mana is life - don't mess that up.

I just want to comment on the general idea that "dealing damage for tanks and healer is not mandatory" or that it's simply a secondary thing. (I'm not answering directly to NephthysVasudan because the whole post is a complete mess of contradictions making me impossible to know what "side" is taken here. I'm just quoting for the sake of having a reference.)

Your main objective as a team is to reduce the HP of the enemies you fight to zero. This is you main goal no matter your role. It's your goal as a Tank, a Healer or a DPS. All of you share that same objective. This means that your job as a party member is to do everything you can to reach that goal.
If you do not deal damage as a Tank or a Healer when you can, then you are absolutly not contributing like you should as a party member. You are letting other carry the burden that you could've carried yourself.

And that leads to the second reason why the argument of "it's optional" is completly hollow. If you have the option to contribute but aren't doing it because of subjective reasons in the context of a team effort, it simply means that you are a selfish jerk. You are dragging everyone down, when you could go up. If your own personal agenda is to shoot for the lowest possible level, then you should be playing singleplayer games. No exceptions.

In short: if you can do it, you should do it. It cannot be more simple.

I rarely have ever seen complaints against anyone while running dungeons, so dunno :/

The reason why the complains are on the forums and not directly ingame is simple: when you queue for your daily roulette or whatever, if you get a princess healer doing nothing you'll usually not say anything out of the fear of starting a drama with a "you don't pay my sub!" individual. Besides, if that player is Lv.70 and is still playing like that, it's easy to assume that nothing that you'll say will change anything. So, you suck it up and deal with the fact that you are doing a dungeon with a terrible player. There's also the case where you are simply playing with a newbie. It's just not worth the risk.
Whatever the case, it's faster to get it done that way than starting an argument mid-dungeon and having some votekicks thrown around the place. So, yeah... People ingame are more silent about it because it's the best way to handle it live. It doesn't mean that people agree with princess healers (or tanks, but "princess tanks" deal a minimum of damage without even knowing. They're just not effective at doing it). They just silently endure the pain of having to deal with one.

[Miste]

Not neccesarily referring to the forums but it happens in game plenty.

I haven't seen people asking for unrealistic DPS numbers from tanks and healers in-game in 4 years personally. All I've seen is people asking them to try to do more than the bare minimum amount. So I am unsure on how frequent this happens outside of savage content.

If you mean savage well in savage healer and tank DPS is required to clear it at least until people get overgeared anyway so some groups will ask you to do more DPS if you can. So if you cannot do what is required yet then you need to practice and improve or find a group that is okay with you not doing as much DPS as you could.

[Tridus]

Not neccesarily referring to the forums but it happens in game plenty.

Where? If a static has certain expectations, that's for them to sort out.

I've never seen a healer kicked in DF over DPS. People may expect a number > 0, but even that isn't all that typical in the Duty Finder. I've literally never seen a complaint about lack of healer DPS outside Ex/Savage tier when groups were hitting enrages, and if you're doing 0 DPS while hitting the enrage, then the group needs the DPS.

For the most part, what people want is effort. If you're active and trying to contribute, that satisfies almost everyone in DF.

[Keridwyn]

Honestly I would have agreed with you prior to the change to cleric stance. I'm an average player. I'm not out to wring the most out of my class simply because I know I cannot. I live in a place where my ping is pretty much dirt and I suffer lag spikes tall enough to draw the interest of mountaineers. Do I screw up, certainly, I make some spectacular bonehead mistakes from time to time, but if I can throw some rocks at some mobs, anyone can throw some rocks at some mobs.

With all that said, I don't think the DPS meta is what's actually hurting everyone, I think it's the 'gotta go fast' mindset where if your dungeon isn't done in less time than it takes a pizza to be delivered then everyone is bad.

[Ayer2015]

The game has skill bloat issues. This is clear. it's 2017 and you don't need a seperate button for every ability. SE made it a little better with the SB changes but they havent done enough. Combos need to be condensed, and more abilities need to share a button when possible.

While it would have likely been unpopular with the community, I would have preferred PvE had gotten the PvP skill treatment.