Tank dps harrasment

[KageTokage]

I was honestly kind of annoyed to realize that my performance was being unknowingly logged by people for the longest time.

I would've blocked my logs a lot sooner had I known, because you should judging people by how they're performing now, not in the past. Unfortunately, that elitist I mentioned earlier didn't seem to grasp that, because I sure as heck wasn't doing "bottom percentile" DPS on that OS4.

[Taika]

I was honestly kind of annoyed to realize that my performance was being unknowingly logged by people for the longest time.

I would've blocked my logs a lot sooner had I known, because you should judging people by how they're performing now, not in the past. Unfortunately, that elitist I mentioned earlier didn't seem to grasp that, because I sure as heck wasn't doing "bottom percentile" DPS on that OS4.

I'm having a hard time understanding what's the issue of having your logs up. If it's really old data and you have improved a lot since then, you can point that out to a person commenting on those low numbers (or, if they're a person who's being very rude about it, at leat I wouldn't want to be in the same party with them in the first place). Even better, you can ask for people you're currently running with if someone could upload your numbers so that logs would only be showing the current situation. When someone searches your name, it'll first only show your highest rank on every floor.

I'm just thinking this from my own perspective. If I would only have a few recorded kills and all of them would be super low, I would first start reflecting on if that's really how my performance currently is. If not, I'd ask for my current groups to upload my current parses, and those old bad ones would be automatically hidden. If the old logs would reflect my current performance accurately, I would work on improving myself in some practice groups and then ask for someone to upload logs from my kills after that.

I've also only once seen a person kicked from an OS4 party based on their logs (but even that wasn't purely on logs but in combination with a parse from that day, which clearly showed that person was unable to carry their own weight in that fight). There are party finders that demand high performance, and those are likely to check your logs, but why would you join those in the first place if you're not the type of a player who's invested in their performance and has the public data to back that up... Seriously, I'm just confused about why this would be an issue.

[Lewtskie]

Because realistically speaking, even people who do fine on the daily can have bad runs. And unless you are completely clueless in all things, you would be able to tell a good run from a bad one. Did you perform your opener correctly? Hitting your rotations as needed? Get hit by the things you could dodge? Subtle differences will show where you can improve your uptime and use what and when depending on the flow and mechanics, but you should already be able to identify any drastic difference in your own performance then and there. You don't need some deep introspective after the fact.

Unless you're taking it on yourself to upload your own performance, which some can't, then you're at the whims of others to do so; and not everyone else does it either. And you shouldn't have to be super paranoid about your parses; always asking someone to upload every run, just so some rando sees you're not actually shit, you just had a crappy day.

[Taika]

Because realistically speaking, even people who do fine on the daily can have bad runs.

Of course! So if you're doing fine on most of your runs, and you're actively running this content every week, why not just ask for someone to upload the logs so you can get a decent % for yourself and be done with it? Logs are being uploaded so often it shouldn't take many runs to find someone to do that. And you only need that 1 good run to up the rank people see when they check your stats. I just don't see why this would be such a big, negative issue for some pople (and I doubt it's that for many people, as I've never personally seen or heard anyone kicked from party because of logs apart from that one exception - and then it was 100% justified).

[Lewtskie]

....

Unless they're aware of the logs, and not everyone is even if they are aware of parsing, they'll never know to ask and from there it's something they can't "buffer" with asking someone to upload good runs until the damage is already done and either they learn about the logs too late or are challenged for them. From that point they now have to work out of the negative because ill fortune saw fit to have only their two really bad runs recorded and not a majority of their decent-good runs, and now it's a game of not just proving your worth, but now proving you're not shit. And most folks aren't so open-minded to give leeway to someone with shown bad records unless there is evidence that they have run more times than logged.

[Taika]

Unless they're aware of the logs, and not everyone is even if they are aware of parsing, they'll never know to ask and from there it's something they can't "buffer" with asking someone to upload good runs until the damage is already done and either they learn about the logs too late or are challenged for them.

If they aren't aware of the logs, why should they care about them? Obviously they're not then excluded from the runs because of their logs either.

From that point they now have to work out of the negative because ill fortune saw fit to have only their two really bad runs recorded and not a majority of their decent-good runs, and now it's a game of not just proving your worth, but now proving you're not shit. And most folks aren't so open-minded to give leeway to someone with shown bad records unless there is evidence that they have run more times than logged.

If a person is actively running Savage, what are the chances that (1) only their really bad runs get uploaded and (2) they're actually removed from parties because of those logs? Do you know of such incidents? Is there anyone in this thread, for example, who knows for certain (has seen parses) that they're generally doing much better than their super low logs show, and that they have been removed from groups because of this? It just seems so unlikely to me that a person would have this kind of terrible luck. And even if they would, like I said, it would be quite easy to fix simply by running the content and asking someone to upload the runs when the group is about to start.

So, for a scenario that seems to be really unlikely in the first place, and one that can easily fixed for a person who would happen to care about it, this seems like case of much noise (and forum drama) for nothing.

[Lewtskie]

Because even if they aren't interested, they are still affected by it as their progress is recorded with or without their knowing or consent, for others to see and judge whether the information provided is thorough or not.

Savage isn't the only thing recorded. The other content of interest and concern are EX primals, which people can get just as rustled about. It's not likely that you'll deal in a Savage run without it being logged, but then again, a large chunk of the playerbase can't even run parses. Besides that point, it's no guarantee that they are better than what the logs will show, but there shouldn't be the situation of questioning the individual from the start using information that may or may not be whole.

A few in this thread have presented cases of such harassment or lockout, and of course without the necessary evidence we don't know for certain, but that too is a situation that is impeded by the incomplete information relied on from the logs. The only thing that would ever clear the issue entirely is if SE were to decide to finally connect with an open system that records everything. Which, honestly, really needs to happen.

[Awha]

lol and people say the pvp community is toxic and that is why they removed our chat. RIP

[Oscura]

To make it short, some people here did mention their own logs, some doesn't, and those who don't, nobody should mention their logs, however if someone talks like they know how to play, someone will eventually look at their logs and compare to lets say their own, just to state what the other person is doing wrong or not. As much as it sounds like ''e-peen'', some people DO talk too much and can't even backup why it's good.

Yeah, in this case though, the post being replied to was highly opinionated and made that incredibly aware. There are lots of people who indeed do talk on the forums as if they know it all, and I myself have checked their past history. I just feel saying "you did less damage than your co tank, and less damage than me in another log while I had a really low ilvl, what's your ilvl? your post should be taken with a grain of salt" is a bit too back handed for me to really defend. The original post never intended that their mindset was correct or "right," just how they viewed it. There are plenty of ways to correct someone on their mindset or even address they do not understand their class fundamentals, and that wasn't one of them. It wasn't even proper correction or criticism at all. Just flat out addressing that someone performed worse. So while I agree with you, this definitely was not that case. Also, I know they weren't replying just to brag, I'm just saying that it could sound that way.

[Miste]

I wish they would just encrypt the data so FFLOGS would no longer work or any other parser for that matter. There being misused to the detriment of the community and need to go away.

4 years of playing this game and all the toxic behavior I have seen in-game was nothing to do with parsers.

In my opinion if parser abuse was so commonplace where something needed to be done about it I feel I should have definitely seen some of it by now. I play way too darn much to have not seen anything by now if it was common.

Parsers are incredibly helpful for statics who wish to overall talk about improvement if it is needed to clear the content.

As for me personally I want to be able to see how I can improve and it is about me, not anyone else. I don't care about what others are doing I only care about my contribution and improving myself.

Why should we lose this tool over a possibly very very small % of people who abuse it? I mean would you ban all rulers from a high school just because one student used it to hit another student in the face? I doubt it...the kid would get reported and suspended and if it kept happening then eventually expelled. You get rid of the person abusing the tool, not the tool itself.