Open world PvP Zone

[Wintersandman]

I just don't understand the opposition to this idea. People really think adding a PvP zone is going to stop new dungeons from coming out? Do PvE'ers really think that a PvP zone is going to somehow reach across the instance line and gank their ass? Then spawn camp them at their home aether crystal? Kill and tea-bag their daily duty roulette dungeon party? Rofl-stomp you trying to gather an unspoiled node?

Apologies, feeling /rant-y today.

Trust me I have had to edit/ re-edit/ and think through everyone response because the people who are opposed to this are unwilling to compromise at all.

I've played EVE and several korean PVP MMOs, and there was very little "craftiness." There's a reason why people complain about blobs in pvp games

There is craftiness. Gromgol Basecamp in WoW was notorious for people coming through and ganking new players. The craftiness is the art in how you avoid campers to complete your objective. I rarely ran across Blobs in WoW. If anything it was 3-5 man teams that would hit up players.

[Kisagami]

Trust me I have had to edit/ re-edit/ and think through everyone response because the people who are opposed to this are unwilling to compromise at all.

Uh, if you read up, I actually did compromise. I said as long as PvE and storyline content was not in the area, I would be okay with a zone for PVP. Is that not conpromise? I just don’t want to be ganked trying to do the story relating to the Beast Tribes. Is it so hard to understand solo players don’t enjoy being mob rushed by 8 people who like interupting people’s questing or blocking/camping PvE content. See: Archeage

I approve. If they were PVP-centric only, I wouldn’t feel like I was locked out of anything.

[Wintersandman]

Uh, if you read up, I actually did compromise. I said as long as PvE and storyline content was not in the area, I would be okay with a zone for PVP. Is that not conpromise? I just don’t want to be ganked trying to do the story relating to the Beast Tribes. Is it so hard to understand solo players don’t enjoy being mob rushed by 8 people who like interupting people’s questing or blocking/camping PvE content. See: Archeage

It wasn't directed at you.

"Good" is subjective and FFXIV is hitting the wall where all new PvE content starts to feel the same, since it's been out a few years now. If new content is feeling stale, it's because it's stale - it has nothing to do with resources working on other projects. It's the side content that really keeps the game interesting with things to do, while the newest PvE content is really the same content behind new boss names and shiny things to wear.

Which is where PvE falls flat. You can only orchestrate a dance sooo many ways before it becomes stale or a slight twist of the original. Which is why PvP could add fresh life. It all depends on how it is created and which mode is selected. Capture the Flag is one mode that never seems to get stale and you can separate it out from the GC's Open World content can be structured any number of ways. There are countless things you can do.

[Alien_Gamer]

Which is where PvE falls flat. You can only orchestrate a dance sooo many ways before it becomes stale or a slight twist of the original. Which is why PvP could add fresh life. It all depends on how it is created and which mode is selected.

Yes PvE can feel stale, so can any game mode with time. PvP is not some magical cure to that, especially for the majority of this game who don't care for PvP. You like PvP so you see anything that pushes PvP out into the world as a good thing, those who don't like it see it as a bad thing and the two are almost mutually exclusive viewpoints.

I don't care if SE adds more game modes to PvP like they're doing with Rival Wings, and if SE wants to create an persistant instance for PvPers to hot join into then great, I wish you the best of luck in your mutual slaughtering. But I would be furious if they tried to implement some part of PvP in the PvE areas of the world just like you'd be furious if SE decided to add gathering nodes in a PvP map and you had people doing that instead of helping your team. PvP and PvE should stay separate in this game.

[Wintersandman]

I don't care if SE adds more game modes to PvP like they're doing with Rival Wings, and if SE wants to create an persistant instance for PvPers to hot join into then great, I wish you the best of luck in your mutual slaughtering. But I would be furious if they tried to implement some part of PvP in the PvE areas of the world just like you'd be furious if SE decided to add gathering nodes in a PvP map and you had people doing that instead of helping your team. PvP and PvE should stay separate in this game.

Actually I had an idea to incorporate gatherers as part of a PvP mode idea so that wouldn't really bug me. I already have bots that would be that equivalent.

So why would you be opposed to optional PvP in a PvE area? What would it do to your gaming experience? Now being optional I am clearly stating you have to flag yourself, register, or some other thing where you are opting in to participate (not just loading in)?

[Shirolumi]

Actually I had an idea to incorporate gatherers as part of a PvP mode idea so that wouldn't really bug me. I already have bots that would be that equivalent.

So why would you be opposed to optional PvP in a PvE area? What would it do to your gaming experience? Now being optional I am clearly stating you have to flag yourself, register, or some other thing where you are opting in to participate (not just loading in)?

Oh what's the gathering idea?

And also (not pointed at you) I would like to point out peoples reactions to Beast Tribe being PvE content that they don't want to miss out. But if we were to have Beast Tribes in this PvP zone, there would be PvP objectives. Therefore making it PvP content basically.

[Wintersandman]

Oh what's the gathering idea?

And also (not pointed at you) I would like to point out peoples reactions to Beast Tribe being PvE content that they don't want to miss out. But if we were to have Beast Tribes in this PvP zone, there would be PvP objectives. Therefore making it PvP content basically.

You could have miners/botanists gather logs/ore to repair seige weapons but need a group to defend the gatherer from getting ganked. PLD Cover or DRK TBN could be used as a shield along with SCH, etc. Crafters would get to intense with rotations but gathering could be pretty straight forward. More people can switch when there aren't enemies to accumulate resources but contested nodes could get interesting with people racing to accumulate the resource to repair their specific seige weapons (Cannons, Catapults, Etc.). Also have it be death doesn't remove items accumulated. This format would work best in an open zone as you have one faction controlling a castle, etc.

But also for those who didn't play FFXI. PvP was played in PvE zones. It was completely optional and no one was forced to participate.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Ballista

Literally, the majority of people here are just wanting you to understand we don’t like having to be paranoid that we’re talking to an NPC or looking at a map and suddenly here comes 8 people on a war path just because they can.

I totally understand this. I don't want to force anyone to participate but instanced zones also come with their own problems. Diadem is a perfect example. I would like to go gather in Diadem but I can't because I need to wait for 8 people or get another person and go through my FC. Open World allows for adhoc, everyone can participate. Now Open World doesn't have to be mandatory which is why I included the link above. The Wolves Den Arena is another perfect example. You can walk into the arena and no one is going to gank you. You have to give permission.

I keep using the Isles of Umbra as an example because it is the most vacant spot in the world I can think of. You could have a PvP battle on-going and someone could go to Pharos to attune to the dungeon and not get disturbed in any way shape or form since they would have to toggle, register, or some other form of opting in to participate in the currently present on-going battle.

I don't think anyone here is asking for forced participation. From every person that is posting for an open world pvp zone/area all they are wanting is something that isn't instanced.

[Alien_Gamer]

Actually I had an idea to incorporate gatherers as part of a PvP mode idea so that wouldn't really bug me. I already have bots that would be that equivalent.

So why would you be opposed to optional PvP in a PvE area? What would it do to your gaming experience? Now being optional I am clearly stating you have to flag yourself, register, or some other thing where you are opting in to participate (not just loading in)?

Short answer, it never ends well.

I have never played a game where the PVP element didn't devolve into PvPers harassing non-PvPers for duels or a fight or whatever. To them you either participate in PvP voluntarily or are there for them to treat like crap until you give in. Flags only stop mechanics, it does nothing to stop harassment. I don't believe it will foster a healthy community and the overall game experience would go down because of it. I know you and others have stated different experience, but thats been mine.

From a game design perspective there's too much that will need to be held together with duct tape and superglue. The way classes and skills are built are different for PvP and PvE, how would balance be handled? I mean, balance is already a hot point for most people in PvE and thats when they aren't fighting each other; add PvP with PvE skills and those arguments will blow up 10x as big. If you assume PvP skills are more balanced then do you force peoples hotbars to change to PvP hotbars once they're attacked? If your hotbars change when you set your flag so you're always in PvP mode then how do you handle PvP skills vs open world mobs in fates and such? PvPers have far fewer skills at their disposal and could be at a disadvantage for credit.

This game simply wasn't built for it and pushing the two together would make for a very awkward experience for everyone. Given time the devs could probably make it work but why bother? The amount of work and time that would be spent trying to merge the two sides would be much better spent creating something for each.

[Wintersandman]

This game simply wasn't built for it and pushing the two together would make for a very awkward experience for everyone. Given time the devs could probably make it work but why bother? The amount of work and time that would be spent trying to merge the two sides would be much better spent creating something for each.

The game did make it work until 4.0. 4.0 caused the biggest divide amongst PvP and PvE. Up to 4.0 you could use PvE skills and hopefully you wouldn't have NPC enemies in a PvP zone/area. If you were flagged for PvP the NPC's wouldn't attack you.

We already had this and the balance argument was actually less than PvE balance so I have to disagree with you.

I have played PvP games and I never experienced being harassed. I just went about my business. We have the Blacklist feature, you can walk away, or you can go busy. There are many tools to alleviate the harassment you are so paranoid about. I show up at the wolves den all the time and stand in the dueling circle. I have no problems shutting someone down or I just let them kill me and watch them sulk even more because I didn't put up a fight. It demotivates people when you refuse to engage and they end up leaving you alone.