Tank dps harrasment

[Zarabeth]

*snip*.

You were doing nothing wrong. I prefer tanks to be in tank stance (I'm a healer) during dungeons because it just makes everyone's life easier. Please ignore or report these jerks using parsers to harass other players. Keep doing what you are doing. You are actually playing the job as it's meant to be played. Unless you are in endgame raid content there's no reason why you can't be in tank stance.

[KaivaC]

If it was an assumption, I'm sure OP would have corrected me, but it's not. Some might find it rude to give honest feedback, but I'd prefer someone to be straight up with me than censor themselves for the sake of my sensitivities.

Thanks…I believe I will take your advice and do just that. See, the issue here is that the OP specifically mentioned the kicking was from a dungeon and hunts. While they have mentioned they did good enough to farm Shinryu EX, you are just focusing on that specifically. And if I recall, FF logs doesn’t automatically update – somebody has to be parsing or uploading the data. It is possible that whatever has been uploaded on FFLOGs is not representative of everything they have done in their time playing. OP already indicated that they didn’t even know that they were even on FFLOGs in the first place.

And wait a minute…in casual content, tanks who don’t lose aggro and stay in tank stance are being carried? Are you serious with this? In casual content? Because if I remember, tanks still have to be attacking their mobs to hold hate, right? Yeah…I though so. You are just picking a tiny piece of the OP’s statement and twisting this conversation into something else. It is players like you that are poisoning this community. It’d be one thing if this was EX/Savage content, as you keep mentioning again and again and again and again. But this is casual content. If the tank doesn’t want to stance dance in casual content – I had to underline that just so you can see the point that has been made multiple times, then no, people do not have the right to kick and I’d happily report them for harassment and parsing myself. No in casual content – PFs, yes, because it’s the PF leader and their rules. But if this was a DF issue…then people kicking for such a stupid reason are the ones that need to be suspended from being in the DF in the first place. Same with hunts. I don’t even know why somebody would even do a kick from a hunt over tank DPS. That is by far one of the stupidest, most pettiest things I’ve ever heard done by a FFXIV player.

[MeridaQ]

Hey OP, first if someone is kicking you from a dungeon or hunt party for low dps. There is something going on, either there is more two it or they are jerks. The community in general doesn’t care about dps in that content and hunts are based off enmity and damage so tank stance is better. This is a basic opener for PLD, obviously some sheltron/shield swipes can be used throughout. http://ffxivrotations.com/1876 Once you get Requiescat back up restart the opener at that point. Simply rotating between royal authority combos and goring blade combos usually two royals then one goring repeat. You can do this in tank or DPS stance either way it should help. If your mp is low when Requiescat is coming back up use sheltron a few times to regain some quick mp. If the DPS or healer aggro is creeping up on you have your tank provoke shirk to help or switch a couple of the royal authority combos to rage of halone combos and then go back to the DPS combos. If you have questions about CDs rotation if you want to try out DPS stance on shinryu EX I can go over that with you too. Don't be discouraged

[BigRed5392]

Dont need a parser to see someone in tank stance the whole time lol.

nothing wrong with tank stance. that just my two gil.

[Mavrias]

nothing wrong with tank stance. that just my two gil.

OP was kicked from Shin farms and hunt parties for doing low dps and being in shield oath too much by their own admission. PF leaders have the right to kick for literally any reason they choose. While theres nothing wrong with tank stance inherently, it is not harassment to be kicked from someone's party if they feel you shouldnt be in it so much. And it's very easy to see a tank is not doing as much dps as they could without using a parser if they are in sitting tank stance for the majority of a fight.

[Joe777]

OP was kicked from Shin farms and hunt parties for doing low dps and being in shield oath too much by their own admission. PF leaders have the right to kick for literally any reason they choose. While theres nothing wrong with tank stance inherently, it is not harassment to be kicked from someone's party if they feel you shouldnt be in it so much. And it's very easy to see a tank is not doing as much dps as they could without using a parser if they are in sitting tank stance for the majority of a fight.

OP was kicked out of a Shinryu EX farm party before they even went in because they looked up their dps on fflogs, saw grey, and basically said "gtfo scrub". Difficult content is really the only place someone needs to do well in, and dungeons and hunts are not that content. OP was legit wrongfully kicked. So what if they stayed in tank stance, you don't need to speed run dungeons or speed kill hunts. The Shinryu EX farm group judged OP before they even saw them in action over parser data. Do I really need to say any more?

[Mavrias]

snip.

I mean I specifically mentioned not dungeon content but continue to go off on me about dungeons if it makes you happy I suppose. And again, party leaders have the right to kick for any reason they choose. I can kick someone from my party right now for any arbitrary reason like "I dislike your glamour" or "my fc mate is looking for a group." Because for that specific party? I make the rules. Additionally you can report someone til your fingers bleed, but Square Enix cannot tell them what websites they can and can't look at and what decisions they make based on what they see on said sites. It's why people can put up pfs that say "will be looking up logs" all day long.

Its harassment to continuously berate, talk down to, or pursue arguments with someone after they've asked you to stop, go out of your way to ruin their reputation, etc. It is not harassment to kick them from a party you created.

[KaivaC]

OP was kicked from Shin farms and hunt parties for doing low dps and being in shield oath too much by their own admission. PF leaders have the right to kick for literally any reason they choose. While theres nothing wrong with tank stance inherently, it is not harassment to be kicked from someone's party if they feel you shouldnt be in it so much. And it's very easy to see a tank is not doing as much dps as they could without using a parser if they are in sitting tank stance for the majority of a fight.

You have a point - PF party, PF leader's rules. With that being said, if the MT is holding hate and doing their mechanics correctly, kicking them over DPS specifically is inherently wrong. It is harassment if a tank is being kicked over DPS, because the tank's primary job is to hold hate for the auto-attacks/tankbusters...their primary job is not to DPS. That being said, healer/tank DPS helps in content, but I don't agree that a tank...or really healer should be kicked solely over DPS numbers. That's on DPS jobs...if they're not doing the damage, then they are messing up. Let add to this by saying if the tanks or healers aren't contributing to DPS at all - then that's a different issue entirely, and they're not helping the party at all.

[ElHeggunte]

If people feel its acceptable to kick a tank because his/her DPS is low [...]

I think this new meta around tank DPS is getting out of hand, but it's not without it's merits and isn't totally unreasonable. As a tank you can only hold so much threat and mitigate so much damage before any additional action becomes redundant. As a healer, you can only recover so much HP before you start overhealing (or literally just wind up sitting around for 10-20 seconds until someone takes enough damage to be worth healing).

Once you hit a certain threat threshold or you're in a position where no one is in immediate need of healing, why wouldn't you fill those globals with extra damage instead of sitting on your hands or performing wasted actions? More damage also has the direct benefit of adding to the eHP of the entire group: the faster the mob dies, the less damage it deals, and the less HP the healers have to recover.

Your "examples" also fall flat when you consider that tanks and healers have decent damage capabilities baked right into their toolkits (largely so they can actually solo content without taking years to kill something) where as DPS barely have anything in the way of damage mitigation or HP recovery. You're comparing apples to airships.

look uo every QA live letter, everyone one has a "please add parser" question, each time he stats no, and adds that parsers are a "don't ask, don't tell" if you use it to harass people, it against tos. we going on 5 years he has been saying this.

FFLogs =/= In-game Parser. I know SE's stance on parsers. I've never seen them say anything about third-party sites like FFLogs even though the data was obtained via parsing. Largely because there's no proof that the person talking about the logs is in any way parsing themselves.

Using the information to harass someone is one thing (because harassment is against the ToS regardless), but I've never heard of general use of FFLogs being against the ToS. And no, "guilt by association" doesn't apply here unless SE explicitly said using FFLogs is against the rules in addition to openly parsing.

[Solarra]

If OP doesn't want to be discriminated against because of his fflogs rankings, he needs to git gud and improve them.

This is why we can't have nice things. This attitude right here is why the devs are so against in-game parsers and why a significant portion of the player-base is against them, too.


There is absolutely no reason to kick a tank over their dps in dungeons or hunts. If a group needs their tank's dps to clear casual content, there has to be something seriously wrong with the dps.