I miss the old PvP.

[Divinemights]

Probably because most PvP vets know Monk is fail out the gate in PvP for the most part. They can be good but if you notice in most matches almost everyone is ranged as there is no survivability as a melee especially in 72 man. The wind up on MNK is the most brutal part. Why MNK when you can NIN/SAM/DRG which have a way to escape and you can get your burst off faster.

This I do noticed. I find more and more people are on Machinists and Bards for easy way; however, I do find it is hard to believe that our English feast players are not noticing it?

[Wintersandman]

often times it's people who AREN'T regulars or PvEers.

PvE'ers are the most toxic typically. They show up for their roulette and dictate how the match should go. I know who is a regular and who is not as you can tell. I am on Primal and it isn't that bad. The regulars typically don't give a ... how the match goes. They just go with the match and have fun. Regulars are typically after battle high/fever and want to overrun the other teams.

It isn't how it always goes as there are exceptions to the rule but this has been my experience.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

My experience is much the same. Regulars are used to both winning and losing. It really becomes secondary to enjoying the match. That's not to say they don't play to win, but they generally don't get as nasty or quit as easily as nonregulars do.

Thank you for your response, but toxicity isn't the main focus of the discussion here. The point is simply being: are we really that knowledge as we claim to be? I gave you a solid example to show our community is not as that knowledge as we believed to be. You were simply wield it off by gave a blunt response that those elite vets you are referring to are either can't post any more (due to their own toxicity) or don't care any more. It is very contradicting to what you have said and strongly emphasizing on.

Unfortunately your argument is weak because not only certain Discord has proven you wrong also FF14 reddit is clearly not aware of this bug. I am simply trying to ask you, are we really that knowledge to tell FF14 devs that their design logic is wrong?

I can say from experience, the FF14 Reddit is NOT the place to go if you're looking for any kind of PvP info. There's a rather open dislike of it there, worse than here.

You also assume far too much in the above statement. You also didn't answer my question at all. Tell me how it speaks of the devs knowing more than players when they restricted Feast chat despite players pointing out that silencing everyone would create problems when helpful players can't offer advice to their team? Tell me how it fixed toxicity when completely new players come in with the impression that spamming "Nice Job!" is somehow helpful and NOT just as toxic the moment something doesn't go their way? Tell me how it stopped people from sending nasty tells to one another if on the same server after a match. One big blanket silence to fix all that toxicity, right? Right. . .

Tell me how it showed they knew better to say "Whoops! We didn't get enough feedback from the preseason, Please participate in Season 5 so we can gather the data we need" when I said in that same thread what would've been a better approach would've been to extend the preseason - now that they weren't preoccupied balancing the raid - and encourage players to actively queue the Feast so they could get what they needed? Tell me how it made sense that a community rep didn't say anything until after the fact when that's exactly what a community rep should've done soon as they realized they didn't get enough "feedback". You know, despite the threads I mentioned that were LITERALLY titled "Feedback: [Job]", created during said preseason BY PLAYERS who played those matches.

How about not accepting screenshots and evidence because of the possibility of faked evidence, and how effectively that's helped with dealing with all the issues of botting in Frontlines and wintrading in the Feast, all 5 seasons of it so far?

Shall we take it further? Remember when players wanted PLDs to block magic and the devs' design logic was "No, we don't want PLDs to be able to block magic"? Remember what tank job wasn't being taken into Gordias, where most of the attacks were magic based?

How about that time they adjusted Ninjas because players found a better rotation than they originally planned for?

"Something something, don't want to lift GC restrictions because of the possibility of 'moral degradation' of players" . . . then they did it in 3.5 and look how short PvP queues are now.

Play devil's advocate if you like, but if you want to use one annecdotal example of something the community didn't catch, make sure you take note of all the times they DID catch something, or even forewarned the devs about it.

[Guesswhat]

I think they probably just want to have it THEYR Way wich is easier to "Balance" because of the massive reduction of Actions.

True, they mentioned "too many buttons to click". But I believe there is much more behind this massive change, and -I assume- the main drive is to get as many people to PvP as possible. Sacrificing the "old guard" in the process if necessary.

[Synestra]

This I do noticed. I find more and more people are on Machinists and Bards for easy way; however, I do find it is hard to believe that our English feast players are not noticing it?

BRD is probably best solo class after healers when it comes to FL pvp, you can do fine as melee but your strat is way more boring than it is when playing ranged. You really cannot rush in the fray as melee anymore so instead you do some sniping, pvp revamp in SB made all melee jobs way more boring than they used to be because their performance is so heavily affected by whole team specially if you don't have healers(no healers? well theres no point to really play melee or tanks then, you can contribute much more as ranged if this happens).

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

A big reason there's such a disparity now between melee and ranged is the imbalance of cc between the jobs. MCH has the only aoe stun in PvP and it's been reduced to 2 seconds, and now with a resistance immediately applied. BRD has a bind. NIN has a bind, a silence, and a stun. SAM/DRG/MNK? None of those.

Now for those that might say it was imbalanced before, melees did a lot of damage, and still do, but the reason they were able to counter ranged was being able to close the gap and lock them down to be able to deal that damage. Alternatively, ranged cc skills allowed for escape or counteroffensives. And now? BRD burst can still kill in an instant if the target's at like 60% or less. MCH hits like a melee, but at range. Caught up to one? Get stunned, get knocked back, maybe catch a DoT with Flamethrower, then watch them bolt away. Oh that too: Sprint was universal. Why they felt it shouldn't be, or rather why they felt it should be an option among several other good optional skills is beyond me. But things were a LOT more balanced when everyone - tanks and healers too - had cc abilities (that ALL shared the same diminishing returns) to use for offense or defense.

[Gravton]

Despite of size and the toxicity of this "PvP" community, are you sure we are more knowledge than S/E dev themselves? It sounds very arrogant to claim so. There is a fatal bug with Monk's PvP action Riddle of Earth after patch 4.11 in which "that" community found it right away. The bug caused "reduce the damage taken by 10%" into "damage taken increased by 50%" As of today, no one in this PvP forum ever notice it yet. Are you sure we are really that knowledge as we claim so?

Yup, Army's Paeon for brd is bugged, doesn't give the damage increase. Not paying attention to monk isn't exclusive to the players.....is it SE?

[Gravton]

Let's look at the dev's track record then:

"People on the internet are mean" - We will remove chat
"Too many buttons for pvp" - We will remove them
"Healing is hard" - We will make them Over Powered
"Pvp is still to hard, is it ok if I cheat" - We will help you by denying any kind of evidence submission
"I still can't win" - We will add mechs, turrets, and npcs
"I keep dying" - We will start providing echo bonuses
"Pvp is boring" - Play something else or please look forward to e-sports

I'm not going to say the devs "don't know what they are doing", but I will say "I have no idea what they are doing". They tell us they want to separate pve from pvp, but then rival wings? Maybe we are getting a bad translation and they meant to say pvp should be more like pve.

[Mofafafa]

Let's be real, they're following League of Legends footsteps here. Since the game have been millions+++ playerbase

Plagiarizing the following things:
1) 2 "additional skill" ( summoner spell )
2) Traits ( Rune/Mastery )
3) 9 button playstyle ( 4 button for League of legends )

Let's not talk about these part:
1) Mechanics for CC
2) Item mechanics
3) DotA2... Legacy mode, especially Invoker, meepo, syllabear, etc etc

But since the ff14 game(PvP) in nature doesnt allow player to :
1) Build item accordingly to counter enemy team
2) Fog of War ( we have something similar in ff14 but no "wards coverage" )
3) Chat..... ( LoL have the system that allow you to mute the specific player )

SE policy regarding the game
1) Chat restriction, replace with "quick chat". That will eventually build up and contradict the 9 button gameplay decision
2) No Video/Picture proof to report against abuser/cheater

If we compare ff14 against LoL, we will notice why LoL actually have better customer services
1) Riots' employee actively surf reddit / their forum, and respond to players whenever there is a question regarding the game. ( I know ff14 japan forum for pvp have more interaction from SE )
2) They accept videos and screenshot as proof.


As for their statement regarding "There are more players playing PvP than before now"
1) Experience point
2) Faster Queue time for DPS compared to dungeons
3) GARO event happened when chat restrictions happened
4) Cross Server Party Finder
5) Feast Mount reward ( actually a better reward compared to the old )
6) Stormblood Raubahn congestion
7) Botting because of EXP point
8) Cross server Party Finder, FOR CUSTOM MATCH


I've completely stopped playing PvP for this game unless its a custom match. Not to mention, League of Legend released a new "Rune System" that is actually super fun to play. I still have so much to say but I'm too lazy

[blindfoldedkaos]

old pvp was a bloat on hotbars, not only did you have PvE stuff, but PvP stuff to boot, combine that with how much there would be with the level difference between level 30 - 70 + Stats that matter + New level 70 skills? Would be a mess, and you would have old pvp where it was drying up faster than water in a desert.