I miss the old PvP.

[blindfoldedkaos]

Let's be real, Copying League of Legends.

1. plagiarizing for ideas in the game industry doesn't exist, it's called integration it's how the industry evolves, every game does it, they take cool thing from other games and make it their own.
2. I prefer feast without chat, it was a toxic shitfest just like leagues old elo hell.
3. Frontlines still has chat.
4. PvP has more players because for people who weren't hardcore players? new PvP is fun and 100x better than old PvP.
5. even with Raubahn EX, people queued for PvP because it gave better EXP, not 'cause of the stop gap, even then, instances were dead from everyone spamming said raubahn instance.

[Mofafafa]

old pvp was a bloat on hotbars, not only did you have PvE stuff, but PvP stuff to boot, combine that with how much there would be with the level difference between level 30 - 70 + Stats that matter + New level 70 skills? Would be a mess, and you would have old pvp where it was drying up faster than water in a desert.

I'll admit that the button was bloat for PvP.
At first I wasn't attracted to play the game because of amount of buttons, but the Feast Mount reward attracted me, and i decided to try PvP. It was fine for me, most likely because I was a noob in PvE back then and I was fairly a fresh player.
IMO the level 30 have their own pros and cons..

Advantage:
1) you can play at different Data Center at low level
2) You can play different class at low level

Disadvantage:
1) Alt taking spots for Ranking system
2) Players creating Alt to troll in ranked game, win tradings

The new level 70 skills would make every class so balanced, especially the 3 class that's fairly weak for Heavenswards which are SCH, DRK, NIN
And pre-SB, the PvP was the one that probably only mode that's still going and providing most revenue towards the game during creator till SB. imho

[blindfoldedkaos]

Lets see here.

"People in the feast are toxic" - We will remove chat in feast.
"4 hotbars for all the PvE and PvP actions" - We will reduce them.
"Healing is hard" - Said no one ever.
"Pvp is still to hard, is it ok if I cheat" - We will help you by denying any kind of evidence submission, mainly based on videos that are badly edited.
"I still can't win" - We will add mechs, turrets, and npcs < No, they needed a new game mode, so they added a MOBA.
"I keep dying" - We will start providing echo bonuses < Wait what shit are you smoking?
"Pvp is boring" - Play something else or provide constructive criticism and quit acting like a child, 'this sucks' doesn't help improve shit.

[blindfoldedkaos]

snip

The bloat was really bad, with SB it would of gotten worse.
The problem with pre-SB PvP was the majority of players found it no fun at all, since you had to gear a whole build, and most of the time, a whole set of gear dedicated to PvP, now people can just 'pick up and play' PvP and not worry as much.

Disadvantage number 3 with level 30's:
Based on the old system, level 30's would of been destroyed by level 70's with better skills and better stats.
Oh and win trading has been a thing since season 3, at least on primal.

[Mofafafa]

1. plagiarizing for ideas in the game industry doesn't exist, it's called integration it's how the industry evolves, every game does it, they take cool thing from other games and make it their own.
2. I prefer feast without chat, it was a toxic shitfest just like leagues old elo hell.
3. Frontlines still has chat.
4. PvP has more players because for people who weren't hardcore players? new PvP is fun and 100x better than old PvP.
5. even with Raubahn EX, people queued for PvP because it gave better EXP, not 'cause of the stop gap, even then, instances were dead from everyone spamming said raubahn instance.

1) Yes, you're correct. Just like every cellphone in this current era. But my debate is that, why SE decided to do this? When LoL have that system already, and why play ff14 when you can play LoL in every aspect way better than ff14 itself. We (I) as a consumer wanted a fresh content.
2) You're correct, every PvP game will have toxic players like every game. But why don't just use the *Blacklist* and mute them instead of punish everyone??? then implement quick chat which result in much more obnoxious sound and even more toxic indirect message
3) Frontline is still a healthy game mode, because there isn't any ranking system. But... there is still sign of toxicity in there, and during GARO, more non-PvP frequent players (those player that doesn't pvp) has participated, and they actually contributed to the toxicity in frontline chat.
4) I respect that, different players have different opinion on their favourite.
5) Yes, and Yes.


ah and yes, i 4gt to mention that, back in heavensward, when lvl 60 is the requirement to partake any PvP.

That was my motivation to level up every single class to level 60 and play those classes

[blindfoldedkaos]

1) Snip

1. It is fresh system for those who don't play league, and why would you want to play league anyway? when you can just play FF?
2. Blacklist only has room for 200 people and pretty much at the time 70% of the feast was bad when it came to chat, i was there, i still get tells from people out of feast matches from the truely toxic.
3. I agree that frontlines can be toxic sometimes, but it's usually rare, and most of the time the toxic one gets ignored/kicked/blocked, it's 1 toxic/angry person in a sea of like 24, and not like 3 toxic people targeting 1 person.
4. that is true. -thumbs up-
5. +1 internet.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

old pvp was a bloat on hotbars, not only did you have PvE stuff, but PvP stuff to boot, combine that with how much there would be with the level difference between level 30 - 70 + Stats that matter + New level 70 skills? Would be a mess, and you would have old pvp where it was drying up faster than water in a desert.

We understand the removal of stats was largely to facilitate allowing level 30s and up to participate. I don't think many of us hold issue with that. As for the hotbar bloat, allow me to demonstrate again. I played the "complicated" Heavensward MCH and ran 3 hotbars; my 2 standard PvE ones, and one purely for PvP skills. I also play on PS4. . .

Hotbar 1:

Safe to say as this was my primary hotbar, I used everything pictured here, and quite frequently.

Hotbar 2:

Please note immediately the redundant placements of Hot Shot, Split Shot, and Clean Shot and consider those 3 slots that could be open for other things. I almost never had any need for Grenado Shot, Spread Shot, Promotion, or Turret Retrieval, so that's 4 more slots I could hot swap skills on, but let's leave them for now and ignore that it was possible to have PvP-specific settings that only became active in PvP, much like the system now. The 1 and X markers were optional and not really necessary, but they were heavily used. They stay. Let's move on to the PvP hotbar. . .

Hotbar 3 (PvP Specific):


For the sake of ease, I made a picture that breaks this down:

Now, when you factor in the redundancies on Hotbar 2, as well as the things I didn't use or need in PvP, those 6 PvP specific skills easily could've been worked into Hotbar 2. THEN there was the PvP-specific settings if I wanted to use them.

And without redundancies, I had room to spare on melee jobs with just 2 hotbars, believe it or not. So please, tell me again where the bloat was? Cause I had no trouble with this mess of a setup at all, and I played the "complicated" Heavensward MCH.

Also consider the amount of skills removed in Stormblood vs the ones gained. . . I can still run 2 PvE hotbars on all the jobs I play, hence "bloat" wouldn't have been an issue anyways. So where's the issue?

[blindfoldedkaos]

Snip

Well if you compare it to say a non-controller hotbar?
You have 16 slots a hotbar and a no-controller hotbar has only 12 slots per hotbar.
giving you 12 extra slots, that's equal to a 4th hotbar on PC.
Given the fact you double up on some skills for quick access, lets say for argument sake, 6 skills, that's half a hotbar 'saved'

I had my hotbar setup way back in HW for machinist as well, i shaved some pvp skills that were worthless to me off the bar and i was still hurting for room with 3 hotbars on top of all the PvE skills.
and by hurting, i mean i had no room left in my 3 main hotbars.

[Mofafafa]

This is my Heavensward mch hotbar and everything else.
Not including turret retrival as it was useless anyway


https://imgur.com/a/DTsLG

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I'm gonna make a whole separate post to address a few things. . .

2. I prefer feast without chat, it was a toxic shitfest just like leagues old elo hell.

So it needs to be asked first; is Primal data center really THAT bad? Because my experience was far less toxic on Aether. It's also important to ask if you played well and whether or not you added to the toxicity? I played well, not always, but well enough that people were often happy to see me on their team and I was civil to teammates, even if we lost. Sure, I ran into some bad apples too, but rather than fire back, I just pushed myself to outplay them. That was far more satisfying and effective in shutting people up.

4. PvP has more players because for people who weren't hardcore players? new PvP is fun and 100x better than old PvP.

Based on what? Your opinion? How is the system better now? The modes didn't change. Most jobs are unable to do over half what they once could (thus versatility in the moment is quite different now). Vital tools like sprint and cc abilities (which ALL jobs had) are no longer universal. And it goes without saying the overall level of skill among the active PvPers has taken a dive with both the disgust/departure of many veteran players, and the general lack of knowledge or strategy among many new players. So I would like solid reason why the new system is better, and not simply opinion. What makes "new" PvP so much fun and so much better than the old PvP?