Tank dps harrasment

[HazyAssaulter]

I feel like I should play the loto because I got these kinds of groups all weekend long. I don't know if it was because it was a holiday weekend or what but I feel so angry/discouraged as a tank right now.

Take that dissatisfaction and use it as motivation to improve yourself. The only person holding you back is you.

[BigRed5392]

snip

count yourself lucky, my GF gets a lot of flack in content for not stance dancing as a drk and when she was a pld. She got a lot of harassment for every lil thing ppl felt she did wrong,
even though she was new to the content, and trying her best to work with her group.

Like i may have told you before, her first amdapor keep run, a healer felt the need to insult her for not speed pulling, even though my g/f stated her wasn't on par for it and it was her first time. (she said it was her first time at start as well) the healer reemed into about watching a video, which my gf replied she had no access to a pc, which the healer tried to retort with then use your smartphone, which my g/f said she had none (she didn't) which the healer tried to call her a liar, claiming she wants ti get carried.

whm ended up pulling for my g.f who was left not knowing what to do. :/ she just was running ak for the relic quest.

[HyoMinPark]

I feel like I should play the loto because I got these kinds of groups all weekend long. I don't know if it was because it was a holiday weekend or what but I feel so angry/discouraged as a tank right now.

You met a bunch of jerks, but I repeat what I said in my other post: I’m fairly confident in saying that the vast majority of players don’t care what you do in dungeons. Because they’re dungeons. So long as you aren’t losing aggro while IN tank stance, cleaving the party, or not using your mitigation, people rarely say anything. Because they don’t care what goes on in dungeons as long as things go smoothly.

[Clicked]

I would suggest dropping tank stance once you establish threat and take the first big hit from the bosses, but it’s definitely not necessary and doesn’t shave off THAT much time. Luckily tanks have short queues so just let them be someone else’s problem and queue for a better group.

[HazyAssaulter]

This is the exact attitude that I am referring to that I feel like I deal with whenever I que for a simple dungeon now days. Why is THIS acceptable?

Why should it be acceptable for people to have to carry you if you refuse to improve? Asking for a shin ex perspective

[HyoMinPark]

This is the exact attitude that I am referring to that I feel like I deal with whenever I que for a simple dungeon now days. Why is THIS acceptable?

It’s not, and people don’t care about performance in dungeons as long as you are doing what you are required to do: as a tank, hold hate, don’t cleave the party, and use your cooldowns. People that expect orange-tier DPS in dungeons are ridiculous. The content doesn’t call for any of that; it’s casual content. As long as the run goes smoothly and ends relatively quickly (sub-30 minutes I would say would be the general consensus for a “quick run” for a leveling dungeon, sub-20 for expert dungeons), no one cares about things like DPS in dungeons. The people that do aren’t worth listening to.

The only place where party or raid DPS matters is Ex trials and Savage. And even then, the checks aren’t tight enough to demand 99th percentile performance from everyone. As long as you are doing your best and contributing, that’s all that matters. Maybe some people get uppity about it, but they’re not the majority. I don’t like carrying players, but as long as the tanks are dying to stupid stuff and are holding hate, I generally don’t care if they drop stance or not. I certainly encourage it if they want to improve their personal DPS, or contribute more to rDPS, but I don’t make a big deal out of it if they don’t. There’s no reason to.

Only in statics would people probably push to tank the majority of a raid or trial in DPS stance. But PF =/= static. If you end up in a group that wants you to do stuff you don’t want to do, just leave and join another. Or make your own. Your PF, your rules.

[Xerek]

I posted this in another thread, but it fits here...

"Muh DPS!"

Sadly, this statement is what FF XIV is built around, regardless of role. Tanks running in DPS stance, refusing to swap back to tank stance when the aggro table gets iffy. Claiming the DPS should use aggro deflection, then if the DPS do, they claim the DPS should hold back. Then the 101 flammable threads about healers that don't DPS. And, of course, you get DPS who, even if they see their tank is struggling, refuse to give up even a single point of DPS to help. The job of the tank is to DPS hard, oh, and maybe manage aggro. The job of a healer is to DPS hard, oh, and heal a little. The job of the DPS is to DPS balls to the wall no matter what. That's the current mindset, and parsers are a large reason why. It's not about efficiency, party symmetry, or heaven forbid having fun. It's about having that high number on the parser.

Now, don't get me wrong, the game itself definately carries some blame. Why are raiders so focused on DPS? Because raids have enrage timers and your raid group needs to wring every last drop of DPS out like a moist dishrag in the desert or you'll likely wipe. And the game allows tanks and healers to do too much damage. If it were a case where tanks and healers could contribute a little DPS here and there, people wouldn't focus on it as much. But currently in XIV tanks and healers can put out so much damage that there is a notable drop-off when they don't. We're not talking about shaving a minute or two off a dungeon, we're talking several. If a nervous peasant has a dagger, I'm not going to be as frustrated if he doesn't use it, but if that same peasant has a handgun, I'm going to get cranky if he isn't opening fire, even if I have an automatic rifle.

FFXIV's design is such that it encourages this DPS above all mentality. Couple that with parsers and it's easy to see why this game's playerbase as a whole has adopted a DPS > All Else mindset. Of course there are exceptions. As a healer, I prioritize healing and weave in DPS where I can. As a tank, I will do everything in my power to regain lost aggro, including swapping back into tank stance if needed and sacrificing DPS. As a DPS I will use all my emnity flushes and even ease up on the DPS if the tank is honestly struggling. But I know the prevalent mindset doesn't match mine. Sadly, FF XIV would require a core philosophical shift to address this issue. Tank and healer damage would have to be slashed to levels that make it a nice, small bonus, not a signifigant contribution to total instance damage...which would immediately cause wailing, screaming, torches and pitchforks. So, sadly, I expect the "Muh DPS!" mindset to continue for quite some time.

[jameseoakes]

Why should it be acceptable for people to have to carry you if you refuse to improve? Asking for a shin ex perspective

What's with the attitude Dio?

[HazyAssaulter]

It’s not, and people don’t care about performance in dungeons as long as you are doing what you are required to do: as a tank, hold hate, don’t cleave the party, and use your cooldowns. People that expect orange-tier DPS in dungeons are ridiculous. The content doesn’t call for any of that; it’s casual content. As long as the run goes smoothly and ends relatively quickly (sub-30 minutes I would say would be the general consensus for a “quick run” for a leveling dungeon, sub-20 for expert dungeons), no one cares about things like DPS in dungeons. The people that do aren’t worth listening to.

The only place where party or raid DPS matters is Ex trials and Savage. And even then, the checks aren’t tight enough to demand 99th percentile performance from everyone.

For the record, I specifically clarified savage and ex trials, if that's the reason you're saying my mindset isn't acceptable

[Hannia]

Why should it be acceptable for people to have to carry you if you refuse to improve? Asking for a shin ex perspective

why are you assuming I'm being carried? I have cleared it MULTIPLE times with no deaths or failing ANY mechanic, I have a macro to mark everyone up and I put waypoints down in P3.... your judged me bassed off what? that's what I'm talking about just because my ffxivlogs (which once again I have no clue how I am even on it but only have 11 total events none are current) say I'm grey 7 on dps that means I'm being carried? if I'm not letting my party die, I'm doing tank swaps correct and not just flat out eating a tank buster with my face how is that being carried?