A Modest Thought

[Miste]

I've been subbed since 1.0 until now and I don't feel the same way personally.

I mean I do content because I like to play. The rewards getting outdated eventually don't bother me personally because I enjoy learning and completing the fights and collecting and doing a lot of different content. I am one of those players who does everything...except PVP. I just don't care for it in this game much but I still do it sometimes. If the reward is too much of a focus it can cause problems because you are only doing it to get better gear and not because you like it.

I mean the game is still FFXIV so changing the core isn't likely going to happen. You'd have to look for a new title in order to get a whole new experience. It would be sort of like buying a FPS game and then expecting it to morph into a JRPG with a DLC. It ain't gonna happen. The core will be the core likely.

I am with you on adding more avenues to explore in this game for sure and they will be adding more modes and more activities and more everything as time goes on, but in my opinion the core of the game will not change unless the game nose dives for some reason with the current core.

Difficulty is a tough issue, because while I feel some of the game is too easy...the fact is so many different kinds of players play this game and they need to cater to many types. If you want more difficulty then you should be tackling the newest savage raids and EX primals, but you don't want to because of the gear being outdated though?

The reason to do tougher content isn't supposed to be only to get gear. You are missing the "it's fun" aspect. If playing a job you like in tough content and learning the fight isn't fun and only the reward is fun I am not sure if the game would be able to keep you happy :/

Just my two cents.

[hellmach]

snip.

When I mention core content I meant more just this pattern of patch releases and the content featured in it that isn't extra like Diadem and so on. not the core way the game mechanics function or anything of the sort.

My issue with the way savage and EX Primals are structured is that unless you're going for absolute BiS there's no incentive to do them. In the case of EX Primals there's no point because tomestone gear outscales it (Shinryu aside but this will be the case again in 4.2). In the odd catch up patches you can just spam 24 mans until you're 340 with all tomestone gear from weekly drops of upgrade materials. There's little incentive to tackle the hardest content in the game outside of savage because the easy way out is always there (tomestones). I personally have an issue with the roulette grind myself but I know they've implemented other ways to get tomestones which is a plus.


Since you mentioned getting better as a player, I actually picked up Paladin to play this expansion when I've played Ninja (and held my own in an ok-ish manner) since I started back in 2.44 to shake things up but even then I don't feel any incentive to gear up and tackle savage because there seems to be no point... I can do 4.2 content just fine in 320 gear with a tomestone weapon and I personally don't have time to do anything but PUG Savage and, besides Shinryu, the EX Weapons are useless because I can get a shiny 330 weapon if I wait long enough. If I bide my time I can just sit on a 330 weapon and upgrade it to 340 in the next patch so no point in doing Shinryu. The thing I enjoyed when I came to this game was the feeling of progressively getting stronger with each challenge but after figuring out how the system works I don't feel any incentive to tackle these challenges and I'm sure I'm not alone in this sentiment.

My other issue I guess has to boil down to replayability. A lot of the time you see people log on for maybe two weeks then just stop outside of weekly drops from savage, 24 man, etc. If they're BiS good luck seeing them log back on until the item levels go up or Bahamut Ultimate comes back unless they want to gear up other classes or level them up.


So when I mention to change the way core content is structured and delivered I guess it's more about improving the incentives to tackle this fun and challenging content and give us core content (dungeons, raids outside of savage, etc) that draws myself and other players back for more. So it doesn't feel so old hat so soon.

[Miste]

I don't feel any incentive to gear up and tackle savage because there seems to be no point...

The point and part of the incentive of gearing up is so you can tackle savage though. I mean you could try doing Neo Exdeath in O4S at i320, but outside of the top tier 1% of players you'll likely have an awful hard time clearing it like that so most players need gear from tomes and savage to clear savage.

Also like I said you seem to be focused too much on the rewards rather than having fun doing the fights. If you had fun just doing the content then the reward would be awesome, but slightly secondary. I mean you basically say there is no point in doing any content...so it seems like you just don't like actually playing the game. If that is how you feel then that is how you feel, but therein lies the root of your issue.

I personally don't need any weapons from Shinryu EX since I raid savage I have had a i340 weapon for a few months now, but I did the fight because I wanted to, because I wanted to learn it, to have fun, and I did. I really like that fight actually. It is fun to heal it and I might even try DPS in there soon for some more fun.

Your gripe doesn't seem to be about content either. It seems to me your main issue is the gear structure which is a core feature of the game. You dislike that gear becomes replaced later so you don't bother, but unfortunately like I said gear structure is part of the core of the game and is unlikely to change.

There are incentives...it just seems like they aren't incentives for you personally. Fun is taking a backseat over rewards and how useful the reward is and you don't want to do the more difficult content because you feel the gear rewarded isn't useful enough for you or you feel it gets outdated to fast. You seem to have no drive to learn and clear the fights just to experience it and have fun.

I mean like I said if that is your opinion that is your opinion, but it is the root of the problem you have with the game and unfortunately the game seems to be doing very well with the current structure so you may be a minority here.

[hellmach]

Sniperoo

For some of us the fun is in acquiring the gear and not for it's own sake but knowing that it will make us progressively stronger and be able to take on more difficult bosses and most importantly that you get the feeling that you earned your reward. You then take these rewards and you take on the next big challenge. Basically the Fantasy ofgrowing power. With BiS I'm sure you definitely feel that you earned it. You got your reward for sure but it's before that where I have a problem. EX Primals don't give you many of the pre-BiS rewards and I wouldn't find this to be a problem if the roulettes you namely get tomestones from were difficult or not even but engaging and I feel like I earned my tomestones. I personally don't feel like I earned my tomestones and I replied to somebody else about this above if you want to know more about what I think of the dungeons and roulette system.

I know I'm not the only one that feels this way and sarcastically call Tomestone gear welfare gear. A few older players, older then me, feel this way as well and while you don't and the newer players that are fueling the success of the game now don't there's a possibility where you may and they will eventually see these systems and wonder what's the point. Will it be 5.0, 6.0, 7.0 if the game makes it to that point (not saying it won't but you never know what will happen from here until then)?

I'm going to sit back an bit and see if somebody who shares my sentiments wants to chime in. I don't want to be the only one harping about this on the forums if I'm not.


TL,DR: My issue or motivation when it comes to engaging in these fights and so on isn't gear for gear's sake but fulfilling the fantasy of growing more powerful through that gear and earning it. While yes you earn your BiS through Omega Savage anything pre-BiS doesn't really have that feeling nowadays. Part of it is tomestones and another is the expert roulettte dungeons you engage in to earn those tomestones doesn't feel engaging and yet they give you access to gear that's better then what you get for EX Primals, which are engaging. Please read above for my thoughts on that.

[Miste]

For some of us the fun is in acquiring the gear and not for it's own sake but knowing that it will make us progressively stronger and be able to take on more difficult bosses and most importantly that you get the feeling that you earned your reward. You then take these rewards and you take on the next big challenge.

Yes, but I already said that savage does what you are asking for. You clear O1S and get better gear and progressively stronger then you move on to O2S and get better gear and get progressively stronger and so on and so on until you get to the final turn O4S which is not the hardest they've ever added but a good challenge nonetheless.

There you can obtain the best weapon until the end of this patch cycle until relic eventually gets upgraded. If you clear all of that and get BiS and know you beat the savage turns when it was hard and unerfed that is definitely something you earned. Also keeping up with and completing the savage content they add makes you into a better player. You improve and learn new mechanic styles that they may make use of again so you earn that improvement as well.

If you have no time to join a static that also might be the problem. A static fulfills this idea that you mentioned of gearing up and getting progressively stronger and being able to take on the next savage floor as a group. How far into savage have you cleared if I may ask?

I pointed out that if that is your opinion then that is fine. Some do have fun acquiring gear, but not actually have fun in the content itself that is true. There are so many different kinds of players.

But I am saying to you that that opinion and mentality likely doesn't go over well in a game like FFXIV. It's core design is a vertical progression system not horizontal so yes the gear eventually gets replaced, but you have to remember it takes over 6 months for that to happen. During that 6 months you earned your rewards and got progressively better to take on the hardest content they added during that patch cycle.

[bswpayton]

When I mention core content I meant more just this pattern of patch releases and the content featured in it that isn't extra like Diadem and so on. not the core way the game mechanics function or anything of the sort.

My issue with the way savage and EX Primals are structured is that unless you're going for absolute BiS there's no incentive to do them. In the case of EX Primals there's no point because tomestone gear outscales it (Shinryu aside but this will be the case ev.

if you dont see the incentive you prob arent going to , I do content for challenge the othe rparts are just a bonus, my issue is I just wasnt lucly to have good friends to do the stuff with.