Black Mage

[Ashenspire]

Not to mention the ability to bio on the move to contribute damage while pulls are happening.

There's large amounts of downtime in dungeons meaning their CD gating does not matter. Not to mention the ability to Triplecast Thunder 4/Flare/Foul on the move to contribute to damage while pulls are happening.

See how that works?

[Kabooa]

There's large amounts of downtime in dungeons meaning their CD gating does not matter. Not to mention the ability to Triplecast Thunder 4/Flare/Foul on the move to contribute to damage while pulls are happening.

See how that works?

Triple casting on the move is kind of a waste. You can get the B3 Eno T4 set up without it, and the only other reason to Triple cast is to BRING THE PAIN

Which you don't want to do while stuff is gathering.

[GospelVhae]

There's large amounts of downtime in dungeons meaning their CD gating does not matter. Not to mention the ability to Triplecast Thunder 4/Flare/Foul on the move to contribute to damage while pulls are happening.

See how that works?

Yeah, let me use all of my arsenal on 1-2 packs with the risk of pulling aggro+ risk not hitting all of them while you're still moving when I could use it on the 4 packs after you finished gathering, be safer from pulling aggro and guaranteed all my aoes hit.

[Galvuu]

There's large amounts of downtime in dungeons meaning their CD gating does not matter. Not to mention the ability to Triplecast Thunder 4/Flare/Foul on the move to contribute to damage while pulls are happening.

See how that works?

Realistically you never do this- this means you have AF3 and UH while moving, but often you need to prep them as the pull starts (especially AF, since you often need to hit transpose as the tank is pulling).
If you blow Triple for that preparation (B3/B4/T4 or Foul), you're not gonna Triple Flare. If somehow you had it all perfectly ready, that's still not going to happen because packs rarely travel closely enough to allow for it (especially in Kugane and Skalla, where a lot of them lag behind to cast aoes).
Not saying it isn't also applicable to Summoner in some instances, but you're counterexample isn't the most realistic.

[jba252]

new ilvl 335 weapon vs 340 weapon?

[VitalSuit]

new ilvl 335 weapon vs 340 weapon?

+1 weapon damage, 340 weapon wins.

[Waliel]

uhh, they have addle-less 11 WW rotation

Oh that's something new then? Cool. The last time I read anything about them was before the patch.

every gcd clip can potentially cost you hundreds of potency, and there are dozens of situations in the game currently where this is the case. Simply saying "if you crit once you make up for this loss" is a flawed argument as you would have the potential extra global as well as the crit without it.

My points is that you're making one statistically insignificant event to be something bigger. Let's say you lose one F4 to Manashift because you have to clip it. Using my own last Neo numbers as an example, my DPS would drop by 25 or ~0.5% on average. Who cares? Sure it'll start to add up, if you continuously clip and lose casts, but we're talking about one Manashift in ice here.

[Galvuu]

My points is that you're making one statistically insignificant event to be something bigger. Let's say you lose one F4 to Manashift because you have to clip it. Using my own last Neo numbers as an example, my DPS would drop by 25 or ~0.5% on average. Who cares? Sure it'll start to add up, if you continuously clip and lose casts, but we're talking about one Manashift in ice here.

You're right in saying that Sfia's point was mildly exaggerated (dunno about losing thousands to clipping unless you're clipping your every ogcd...), but there's a good point in saying that utility shouldn't feel punishing to use.
If I'm going Bard and need to Palisade or Minne or Refresh I lose nothing. Even in O4S I have a modified opener to put out Minuet Troubadour for the first Almagest and the only thing I have to do is delay Battle voice one gcd.
It feels really bad to know you're losing a tidbit of dps to use Manashift most of the time. It's more an annoyance than anything, but come SE, couldn't we use this one thing mid cast or whatever

[Leukka]

I disagree, I'm pretty sure the tribind changes have made SMN the strongest pick here now.

I play all three casters and while SMN is absolutely stronger in Dungeons now than ever before, it still has the same issue it had in previous iterations of the class = It's locked behind 1m Aetherflow burst windows. So sure it's great if each pull takes exactly 1 minute and you have 1 minute between the last pull and the boss you're about to pull but the reality is that this is a rare situation.

Far too often you end up unloading your Aetherflow/Aethertrail/Bahamut into a group and you end up facing the next pull with no resources or you're put in a situation where you pool your resources in the current pull and purposely hold back. This puts you in a situation where you're either disadvantaged in the following fight or you disadvantage yourself in the current fight - a conundrum that both RDM and BLM don't ever find themselves in.

Now are 4 man dungeons a big deal? Absolutely not. Is it worth optimizing a 4 man dungeon? Probably not either. In any case I'd lean on playing RDM to carry an inexperienced healer or play BRD for Peloton assuming I'd even go as DPS instead of DRK for the sake of making the queue faster.

[kennyamr]

I have not much time to reply but I will say this. I've been playing as BLM since the game started.
It's an amazing class and I love it.
Having said that I am totally in favor of emergency buffs compared to the other casters.
I agree completely with OP and just as them, I think that our "caster tower" role should mean noticeable more DPS power than the other casters at least.