Black Mage

[OgruMogru]

^^^ Yikes...

[BlackcatChen]

>But again, the numbers also don't lie. The argument that "personal" DPS doesn't matter as much as "contribution" is worthless, considering all those comps still rely on somewhat hard hitting DPSes being given higher damage through support.

Yeah, they don't. Personal DPS does not equal raid DPS contribution.

[nugglets]

"But again, the numbers also don't lie. The argument that "personal" DPS doesn't matter as much as "contribution" is worthless, considering all those comps still rely on somewhat hard hitting DPSes being given higher damage through support."

If this statement were true, then the fastest kills (those with the highest overall raid DPS) wouldn't be consistently compromised of classes NOT in the top 4 "hard hitting DPSes" that you linked.

[Ferrinus]

A black mage’s unique contribution to a raid is how much higher their dps is than the baseline. That comes out not just in hitting harder gcd for gcd, but also in getting a bigger absolute benefit from other party members’ damage buffs.

There definitely exists some margin by which “greedy” dps like blms could exceed “generous” dps like bards that would make them worth bringing. For instance, if a black mage did literally double the damage a bard or dragoon boasted, the vast amount of damage that ast cards, dragon eye tethers, etc could add would outweigh the benefits of bringing yet another party buffer. The question is, how big is that margin?

[Kabooa]

But again, the numbers also don't lie. The argument that "personal" DPS doesn't matter as much as "contribution" is worthless, considering all those comps still rely on somewhat hard hitting DPSes being given higher damage through support.

All you have to do is factor the RDPS contribution from each of those jobs, and they'd easily be pushing Black Mage down into the 7, 8, or even 9th place.

The issue with just linking the bar graphs, especially the 'overall' bar graph is that you're subject to information without context. Two encounters in particular skew the 'overall' picture, Catastrophe (which favors ranged) and Halicarnassus (Where black mages scumbag with AOE).

Yes. It's Scumbag AOE, because the LB3 basically eliminates the ninjas sans 5%, so any damage dealt to them exceeding that threshold is done solely for the parse. It can be as little as none (if the Black Mage is the LB) to as much as +400-450 to the final tally of a Halicarnassus run. All of which is effectively meaningless damage, fun as it may be to spam Fouls, Thunderclouds, and flares.

Ranking is meaningless when the difference between them is not only made up by party buffs, but eclipses them as well. Sure, Black mage might fight for top 4 in some fights. But why would you want to bring that when it just amounts to, maybe, 200 more DPS that is more than made up for with say, a Machinist. It's not only comparable damage in the end, but additional MP (which itself can translate to more damage via Bards and Foe, healers basically being able to ignore MP management, Paladins and Holy Spirit).

[Kabooa]

There definitely exists some margin by which “greedy” dps like blms could exceed “generous” dps like bards that would make them worth bringing. For instance, if a black mage did literally double the damage a bard or dragoon boasted, the vast amount of damage that ast cards, dragon eye tethers, etc could add would outweigh the benefits of bringing yet another party buffer. The question is, how big is that margin?

You ultimately cannot balance with this philosophy. You either create a scenario where the job is mandatory because the damage advantage is insurmountable, or you have the scenario now, where you might be able to provide more 'baseline' dps, but the margin is so low you might as well bring something else, that not only is in the same damage range, but has more utility to boot.

5% is about the range where it's an insignificant amount, certainly not worth the 'pure cannon' tax on utility and other tools, and 15% is about the point where it starts getting into an unhealthy advantage. Anything in between might balance out with RDPS contribution, but you then still have the issue where the contribution to the bottom line is so close, you might as well just bring the Summoner -because they boost everyone else- or the Red mage because they have unrivaled recovery in bad situations.

[Remedi]

You do realize there'll always be a meta where a job will be better than the others for w/e reason right?

[Lelila38]

You do realize there'll always be a meta where a job will be better than the others for w/e reason right?

And that's a reason for the job that's got the short end of the stick to not say anything?
Being vocal about how unhappy you are with what they're doing to tour class is important. Look at Smn, they were real loud, now they got pretty much everything they were asking for. Don't just quietly accept it, if there's something you don't like.

[Neela]

Attention, Square Enix: The logic that pure damage can somehow outweigh party utility/buffs MUST STOP. Also, check yourselves because SMN (supposedly "lower damage" than BLM) is ALREADY doing higher damage than most BLMs, and you're about to buff them further.

the only thing which has to be stopped is this rumor...

funny how top tier cls' always get a shot if they got company - with this changes smn and blm are getting closer for the majority of the playerbase with a casual skill-level. just fair not more.

even before 4.1 in my opinion Eirene Snow and his few buddys in the top ranking list should have OUTDPS any other caster cause of the effort they were able to master - but we know it hadn't worked like that. for me those current changes just pushed the casual lvl on pair with blm and rdm but might be a reward for those who know the cls in out to climb even higher. those few on top just deserve to beat blm/rdm now - IF it really comes to this situation.

well time will tell like always ^^

[Grimoire-M]

I'm a BRD main and I agree that BLM does need some love. I'm in the one comp that would prefer if I was something else. My co-dps are NIN/RDM/BLM, and Foes/crit simply isn't enough for them. SMN's Contagion alone would be far better for both of our casters if I swapped to it. The problem is this is such a niche comp to begin with that it's hard to tell if it's even worth it compared to the ideal comp that is DRG/NIN/MCH/BRD. I don't think standard raid utility's the way to go about it. Something like MNK's Brotherhood would be better for BLM. Or giving a weaker Enochian effect to allies while you maintain it. Like Foes, but constant.

I'd love to see fire IV's potency increased and its cast time reduced to 2.5s too. Currently the old ARR rotation isn't a big hit to your dps for the flexibility it gains while you're learning a fight. You can do a good chunk of prog with BLM by simply swapping to that rotation once new things hit you. I'd like for that to remain, but using Fire IV to its fullest extent should be encouraged more by buffing it.