Monk ignored for 4.1

[Lastelli]

But bro. Bro, I won't jus- Bro, you listening? I won't just accept this as fact. Before 4.0 even hit, WHM's playerbase flipped their lid on how WHM performed currently with the Lilies, even with the developers saying that it's "an old build" not near the final and they took that to heart and really laid into changes concerning Lilies. Warrior's problems were addressed and, as we can see, are being slowly resolved with the changed being made to Shake It Off in 4.1.

Uhmmmmm you're not familiar with the healers' current state, are you? WHM problems are still there. They changed the lily mechanic to make it not rng because in a game like this where fight mechanics are heavily scripted, rng healing is pure idiocy (they also changed lightspeed and aetherflow rng traits by the way), but this didn't change the fact that the lily system as a whole is still totally useless and most whm raiders don't even look at their lily gauge. Also, they made a very simple change since they just made the proc rate from cure 1 and 2 100% instead of 20%. Similarly, WAR got some very small changes to their wrath gauge to allow for easier stance swap. But people here are pretty much asking for a MNK overhaul so it's a completely different issue. I really don't think they will do that in a patch, especially since they said things like "wait and see how it performs in omega savage", so they clearly don't think that MNK needs to be changed. And btw I was a MNK main for most of HW so I'm aware of the #deletemnk meme, but at that time the biggest issue was actually MNK's dps coupled with lack of party synergy. That's why we now have brotherhood, they wanted to give mnk some party synergy...and that's why sam dps is so high (but probably still not high enough). Anyway the biggest issue is MNK total lack of complexity or flavor aside from GL and positionals...and these two things alone are not enough to give identity to a job, not now when any other dps job has a distinguishing feature. It was a problem in HW too, MNK has been the easy to pick melee for a while, but now it's even worse because all other dps got a guage that actually changed something in their gameplay, be it songs, heat, bahamut, botd etc. while MNK got...a nice presentation for the stacks they already had back in HW, I guess. Very disappointing. I don't even care about RoF, I don't dislike that skill, but aside from that it really feels like MNK is the same easy job it was in HW, maybe even easier since they took fracture away and made MNK into a 1-2-3 job.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

snip

Those were still beneficial changes. Despite their insistence, I sincerely doubt they had any intentions of changing those percentages prior to the immense backlash. The stance swap penalty was no small change either as it had a rather noticeable impact on Warrior's potential burst. Regardless, most here haven't asked for any changes that different from Shake it Off. Likewise, they could easily reduce Perfect Balance's cooldown or make Fist of Earth and Wind offer some reason to not constantly maintain Fire. Monk mains are primarily fed up the job has seen virtually no new additions, and the few changes they did make are wholly useless. Even White Mages got Thin Air.

[Lastelli]

Those were still beneficial changes. Despite their insistence, I sincerely doubt they had any intentions of changing those percentages prior to the immense backlash. The stance swap penalty was no small change either as it had a rather noticeable impact on Warrior's potential burst. Regardless, most here haven't asked for any changes that different from Shake it Off. Likewise, they could easily reduce Perfect Balance's cooldown or make Fist of Earth and Wind offer some reason to not constantly maintain Fire. Monk mains are primarily fed up the job has seen virtually no new additions, and the few changes they did make are wholly useless. Even White Mages got Thin Air.

In theory, those changes were beneficial, yes. In practice, nobody cares about the lilies outside of the very rare instances where divine benison is needed. But benison is just a substitute for stoneskin at the end of the day, so it's not like the lily system is actually needed or useful. It didn't add anything to the HW whm. In fact, the lily gauge is probably the biggest failure in stormblood because you only need it for something that was taken away from the 3.x version of the job. MNK's current situation doesn't even compare. But anyway, when I said "simple changes" I mean that those changes were simple to implement. However, many people are asking for a tackle mastery rework (I totally agree that trait is just silly), which would require a completely new mechanic to be added to the current MNK's rotation. Others are asking for a RoF rework and this would require a total rebalancing of weaponskills potency, so it's not easy at all to implement. Some are asking for GL4 instead of the current RoF, but this would require to change brotherhood as well since the gcd clipping for tfc would become a big issue in that case, or alternatively they should adjust its cd so you won't use it during GL4 (but they'd still need to adjust all the potencies to make it work). I mean, I'd love to see MNK changed to something that feels a little different from the ARR mnk, but I really don't see SE changing the job now. They should've done it in 4.0 and the fact that they didn't just shows that they think that MNK staying the same as it was in 2.0 is ok.

[Silver-Strider]

MNK's current situation doesn't even compare. But anyway, when I said "simple changes" I mean that those changes were simple to implement. However, many people are asking for a tackle mastery rework (I totally agree that trait is just silly), which would require a completely new mechanic to be added to the current MNK's rotation. Others are asking for a RoF rework and this would require a total rebalancing of weaponskills potency, so it's not easy at all to implement. Some are asking for GL4 instead of the current RoF, but this would require to change brotherhood as well since the gcd clipping for tfc would become a big issue in that case, or alternatively they should adjust its cd so you won't use it during GL4 (but they'd still need to adjust all the potencies to make it work).

I just want to say that a lot of this is pretty BS (no offense)

Tackle Mastery wouldn't really require an new mechanic be added to it. It could be something as simple as granting a Chakra stack on using Shoulder Tackle and the trait would be solid, just like the Trait BRDs have with Empyreal Arrow to guarantee that their song effect occurs.
DRG is getting the bonus of Heavy Thrust reduced and the rest of it's toolkit is being readjusted so there goes that argument that it would be hard to rework Riddle of Fire in a similar way.
Changing RoF into GL4 might be a stretch though as that might involve slightly more effort but than again, if Shake it off can be changed from a move that removes detrimental effects into a Bubble that trades away our other buffs for a Bigger Shield, I'm not seeing the argument for changing RoF into something else as completely farfetched either.

[Lastelli]

I just want to say that a lot of this is pretty BS (no offense)

Tackle Mastery wouldn't really require an new mechanic be added to it. It could be something as simple as granting a Chakra stack on using Shoulder Tackle and the trait would be solid, just like the Trait BRDs have with Empyreal Arrow to guarantee that their song effect occurs.

But that wouldn't change MNK's current gameplay at all. You'd just have 1 more chakra every 30 seconds. Since people are complaining about 4.x MNK lack of novelty (and a few other things), I assume that they want something new instead of such a simplistic effect. I mean, 1 more chakra every 30 seconds sounds very disappointing for a job that basically didn't get anything new in its rotation since arr.

[Silver-Strider]

But that wouldn't change MNK's current gameplay at all. You'd just have 1 more chakra every 30 seconds. Since people are complaining about 4.x MNK lack of novelty (and a few other things), I assume that they want something new instead of such a simplistic effect. I mean, 1 more chakra every 30 seconds sounds very disappointing for a job that basically didn't get anything new in its rotation since arr.

Would still be an improvement over the current Tackle Mastery that MNK has which currently serves next to no purpose other than a slight potency upgrade to Shoulder Tackle in its current state. Realistically, we just want the job to feel like it's progressing, which it doesn't currently feel like it's doing. The Chakra mechanic was a step in the right direction but was never really built up on; It only has Forbidden Chakra and Purification, the later of which is now fairly useless since MNK rarely has TP issues anymore. Had SE gone on to build onto the Chakra mechanic as opposed to the half-baked mess MNK got in SB, we might actually have something interesting.