Thread: Monk ignored for 4.1

Originally Posted by Tigerlilley

It's the fact nothing has changed aside from a couple of offgcds since ARR.

Monk is not my main class anymore, because i like healing more, but imo monk always played fine and doesn't need an new rotation or something. For me the class is still fun, despite riddle of fire making you slower. The only real issue for me is that Wind is more or less useless still. They should change something there.

Originally Posted by Jxnibbles

At least the Devs have GL4 for Monks if enough monks complain.. The entire Healer role has no answer.

Healers are fine atm and need only very little tweaks here and there.

Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

I'd rather they know we're actively discontent with Monk's kit, both old and new, than to say nothing and let them assume there's some degree of tacit approval from the playerbase.

The sad part is this is the same dev team who either claim or believe that chat removal from feast was what got more people into pvp, and not Garo or GC restricitons being lifted. Or the fact that people spammed fates to level and assumed we loved fates and put them in the Atma phase.

I wouldn't expect anything decently tweaked to Monk before 4.4. I'm sure the developers don't pay attention to any of the English forums (for an understandable reason, painfully admitted) but even within the JP forums' Monk Thread, there's heavy opposition to how Monk currently stands, so we have that ray of light to cling onto. Hell, I'd be happy with them even acknowledging on a Liveletter that they hear Monk's malcontent without throwing the "It's working as intended, please try it out™."

Originally Posted by Lastelli

They're just not going to change mnk with a patch.

But bro. Bro, I won't jus- Bro, you listening? I won't just accept this as fact. Before 4.0 even hit, WHM's playerbase flipped their lid on how WHM performed currently with the Lilies, even with the developers saying that it's "an old build" not near the final and they took that to heart and really laid into changes concerning Lilies. Warrior's problems were addressed and, as we can see, are being slowly resolved with the changed being made to Shake It Off in 4.1.

Monk's performance, not DPS mind you, Monk's skill kit performance has been an issue since the beginning of Heavensward; I only predate it that far since that's the approximate time I began playing; Stepping into the game with the general consensus of your favorite niche job being revolved around the meme of #deletemnk isn't exactly a welcome stigma. The development team can stand to start tweaking Monk here and there to see both community and Dev Team work cohesively toward a solution, there's no apparent reason that I can see why they can't.

Originally Posted by Xaert

But bro. Bro, I won't jus- Bro, you listening? I won't just accept this as fact. Before 4.0 even hit, WHM's playerbase flipped their lid on how WHM performed currently with the Lilies, even with the developers saying that it's "an old build" not near the final and they took that to heart and really laid into changes concerning Lilies. Warrior's problems were addressed and, as we can see, are being slowly resolved with the changed being made to Shake It Off in 4.1.

Uhmmmmm you're not familiar with the healers' current state, are you? WHM problems are still there. They changed the lily mechanic to make it not rng because in a game like this where fight mechanics are heavily scripted, rng healing is pure idiocy (they also changed lightspeed and aetherflow rng traits by the way), but this didn't change the fact that the lily system as a whole is still totally useless and most whm raiders don't even look at their lily gauge. Also, they made a very simple change since they just made the proc rate from cure 1 and 2 100% instead of 20%. Similarly, WAR got some very small changes to their wrath gauge to allow for easier stance swap. But people here are pretty much asking for a MNK overhaul so it's a completely different issue. I really don't think they will do that in a patch, especially since they said things like "wait and see how it performs in omega savage", so they clearly don't think that MNK needs to be changed. And btw I was a MNK main for most of HW so I'm aware of the #deletemnk meme, but at that time the biggest issue was actually MNK's dps coupled with lack of party synergy. That's why we now have brotherhood, they wanted to give mnk some party synergy...and that's why sam dps is so high (but probably still not high enough). Anyway the biggest issue is MNK total lack of complexity or flavor aside from GL and positionals...and these two things alone are not enough to give identity to a job, not now when any other dps job has a distinguishing feature. It was a problem in HW too, MNK has been the easy to pick melee for a while, but now it's even worse because all other dps got a guage that actually changed something in their gameplay, be it songs, heat, bahamut, botd etc. while MNK got...a nice presentation for the stacks they already had back in HW, I guess. Very disappointing. I don't even care about RoF, I don't dislike that skill, but aside from that it really feels like MNK is the same easy job it was in HW, maybe even easier since they took fracture away and made MNK into a 1-2-3 job.

Originally Posted by Lastelli

snip

Those were still beneficial changes. Despite their insistence, I sincerely doubt they had any intentions of changing those percentages prior to the immense backlash. The stance swap penalty was no small change either as it had a rather noticeable impact on Warrior's potential burst. Regardless, most here haven't asked for any changes that different from Shake it Off. Likewise, they could easily reduce Perfect Balance's cooldown or make Fist of Earth and Wind offer some reason to not constantly maintain Fire. Monk mains are primarily fed up the job has seen virtually no new additions, and the few changes they did make are wholly useless. Even White Mages got Thin Air.

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Those were still beneficial changes. Despite their insistence, I sincerely doubt they had any intentions of changing those percentages prior to the immense backlash. The stance swap penalty was no small change either as it had a rather noticeable impact on Warrior's potential burst. Regardless, most here haven't asked for any changes that different from Shake it Off. Likewise, they could easily reduce Perfect Balance's cooldown or make Fist of Earth and Wind offer some reason to not constantly maintain Fire. Monk mains are primarily fed up the job has seen virtually no new additions, and the few changes they did make are wholly useless. Even White Mages got Thin Air.

In theory, those changes were beneficial, yes. In practice, nobody cares about the lilies outside of the very rare instances where divine benison is needed. But benison is just a substitute for stoneskin at the end of the day, so it's not like the lily system is actually needed or useful. It didn't add anything to the HW whm. In fact, the lily gauge is probably the biggest failure in stormblood because you only need it for something that was taken away from the 3.x version of the job. MNK's current situation doesn't even compare. But anyway, when I said "simple changes" I mean that those changes were simple to implement. However, many people are asking for a tackle mastery rework (I totally agree that trait is just silly), which would require a completely new mechanic to be added to the current MNK's rotation. Others are asking for a RoF rework and this would require a total rebalancing of weaponskills potency, so it's not easy at all to implement. Some are asking for GL4 instead of the current RoF, but this would require to change brotherhood as well since the gcd clipping for tfc would become a big issue in that case, or alternatively they should adjust its cd so you won't use it during GL4 (but they'd still need to adjust all the potencies to make it work). I mean, I'd love to see MNK changed to something that feels a little different from the ARR mnk, but I really don't see SE changing the job now. They should've done it in 4.0 and the fact that they didn't just shows that they think that MNK staying the same as it was in 2.0 is ok.

Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

What? Mnk is in a pretty good spot. It's dps is really good and it brings utility, albeit not quite as good as Ninja. Go look at the highest dps of any content and you'll see quite a few mnks among the BLM and SAM(which have no utility like brotherhood). If you're complaining about losing GL then you're honestly just playing the class wrong.

But tackles and tornado kick are actual garbage that need reworking.

A job is not all about it's DPS.
It PLAYS badly. RoF is a clunky mess that goes completely against the identity of the job.
And speaking of identity, what is that now? We're not the fastest. We're not the strongest. We barely offer utility. What is Monk there for?