Dear Healers who don't DPS

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I'm not disagreeing with that assessment. In fact, if you scroll back a few pages, I actually said healers should be pushing their classes to the limits in PF and Statics - which means DPSing and healing. The only thing I'm actually writing off is DF - which kinda puts me on both sides of this argument at once >.>

Well yeah, but in the scope of a DF instance, you've got to weigh replacement time vs gritting your teeth and just going along with them. Also, by kicking a bad out of an instance, you are also denying them experience and a chance for them to learn which perpetuates the problem.

You're assuming we don't just "grit and bare it." I seldom ever kick, though I do have a tend to drop tank stance if I see healers standing around who aren't new. Either way, there is a stark difference between expecting someone to push their limits and wanting some DoTs and the occasional Holy/Gravity cast. I won't necessarily call you out, but I'll certainly think you're lazy.

Therein lies the problem. While we're all discussing this here... it leaves it open for other less than noble players to see thread, then go make people's lives hell in DF.

And those healers will never change because they do not care enough to change - and attempting to "fix" them is only going to cause everyone involved more stress.

So you are advocating a "safe space." Sorry, but if someone says mean things to you in DF, get over it. People who are willing to ridicule don't need a discussion on the official forums to fuel their intent. They'll do it regardless.

I'm not trying to fix them per se, just discussing how healing works based on the design in FFXIV. I'll certainly argue they aren't good healers though.

Let's get one thing straight: I NEVER said I do not DPS in an instance. In fact, one of the things that irks me the most with wall to wall pulling is that the tank completely denies me my ability to DPS, and usually when I am able to DPS everything's basically dead so I'm not able to contribute DPS. Essentially, big pulls are actually slowing down the group rather than pulling like 2 groups, we beat them down, and advance. The other fun things are when undergeared tanks use sword stance and start taking massive damage, so again, I can't DPS because I have to deal with a squishy tank.

First and foremost, you can absolutely DPS on a mega pull. Swiftcast Holy into Aero III does a surprising amount. Nevertheless, you are quite mistaken. Take the largest pull we can do currently. Dedicated DPS like Red Mage and Samurai can top 10,000 DPS-- far exceeding the loss of some Holy spam on a smaller pack. I did the huge Ala Mhgian pull with just a Summoner (RDM died to aoes) and they were still melting everything while breaking 8,000 DPS. Those pulls simply put greater onus on the DPS to be competent but they are faster.

Just because I'm suggesting we write off DF doesn't mean I'm standing around playing with my staff when I'm not healing.

You have missed the point of this thread. No one has said kick pure healers en masse. We're simply not defending them when talking about healer design in the same vein we wouldn't defend squishy tanks who don't use CDs.

Because there's only so many times you can just heal in a quest before they get to be little more than cutscene bonanzas. They need combat so they can introduce a fail condition.

Which is a failure in design if the devs want to encourage healing over damage. Having completed White Mage up to 60 story wise, I had precisely one quest where I had to actually dedicate some healing to the NPCs. A friend of mine routinely complained how little emphasis is placed on actually healing.

Going back to the quote, I suspect the real reason why instanced are balanced around zero healers DPS is to provide flex room for the group, rather than say "HEALERS DO NUFFIN!". Again, this also reinforces my stance on PF and static groups.

You would be correct, however what the devs prefer and what gameplay allows are two distinctly different things. Yoshida openly dislikes our DPS focus "meta," but until they necessitate more healing, no one will care. Gameplay allows healers to outdamage tanks in most content, thus it's expected of your after a certain point to get comfortable DPSing. If you're level 70 with decent gear, it doesn't matter what the content is, toss out some DoTs or something.