Dear Healers who don't DPS

[Miste]

Then why are you, and several others, calling me a "bad healer" and attempting to tell me stuff I already know about WHM?

Well to be fair you did mention you have issues with large pulls on WHM and while the person who initially gave you advice didn't exactly word it the best way it was still tips in order for you to be able to DPS in large pulls. You responded by calling them captain obvious and then it deteriorated from there...

I mean it is the same problem with in-game. Just because someone offers advice or constructive criticism doesn't mean they are calling you "bad" they are still offering you information and to say something like "telling me stuff I already know about WHM" or calling them "captain obvious" well...people cannot read minds, how is anyone supposed to know if you know? I personally hate that response in-game if I try to offer advice "stop trying to tell me sh** I already know"....like how was I supposed to know you knew.

[Kabzy]

Just because someone offers advice or constructive criticism doesn't mean they are calling you "bad" ...

In this case though, I am actually calling him/her bad. I'm not going to cater to snowflakes, if they know everything about their job but clearly can't handle using their abilities as required, then they are definitely bad. Especially when you consider the attitude of "don't tell me what I know", rather than "I'll try it out".

The community within this game is brilliant, and I find that even "career healers" who know a lot about their jobs benefit greatly from discussing and trying out new things. That's the kind of attitude that I am happy to help out with, but these other people can just stay bad. You can't help someone until they at least attempt to help themselves. It's basically pointless continuing this conversation with him/her.

[Miste]

In this case though, I am actually calling him/her bad. I'm not going to cater to snowflakes, if they know everything about their job but clearly can't handle using their abilities as required, then they are definitely bad. Especially when you consider the attitude of "don't tell me what I know", rather than "I'll try it out".

I get that response being a turn off as I mentioned I hate it when people respond like that because simply another person won't know what you know, but I really don't agree about going around calling people bad when you don't even know them or have even played with them. It is an unfair assessment and unnecessary to include when you are simply just trying to give advice.

Honestly you are never going to get a good response going about it like that. It will only push people farther away and make them less likely to listen and more likely to just continue being stubborn because no one wants to listen to someone who says "you're bad so do this" instead of "I'd like to help you, so do this". I mean just a small bit of tact is all it needs to get a better response.

I get it we shouldn't have to walk on eggshells to offer advice to players, but there are some obvious things you should avoid saying.

[Kabzy]

-Snip-

I agree with basically everything you're saying, but my response was also based on pages of responses between the person in question and other posters as well. I wouldn't approach somebody completely new in that manner, especially in game, but if you're posting on here you are opening yourself to anyone's opinions.

[Almagnus1]

In this case though, I am actually calling him/her bad. I'm not going to cater to snowflakes, if they know everything about their job but clearly can't handle using their abilities as required, then they are definitely bad. Especially when you consider the attitude of "don't tell me what I know", rather than "I'll try it out".

Holy + Thin Air + Presence of Mind was one of the few things I was looking forward to in the SB PvP changes... however...

So yeah, stop telling me things I don't know, because (IMO) only another bad calls someone they don't know bad.

[Miste]

I agree with basically everything you're saying, but my response was also based on pages of responses between the person in question and other posters as well. I wouldn't approach somebody completely new in that manner, especially in game, but if you're posting on here you are opening yourself to anyone's opinions.

Yeah, I understand that you have been talking to them for a few pages and I can't control you, you are free to post your opinions. I am just trying to advocate keeping the forum just a bit more friendly and just asking you kindly if you could try to refrain from directly singling anyone out and calling them bad. I mean you have no obligation to listen to me or anything I just figured there is no harm in just asking you if you could avoid doing that sort of thing.

(IMO) only another bad calls someone they don't know bad.

Don't start doing this too please I understand you are just defending yourself, but end it here okay.

[Kabzy]

So yeah, stop telling me things I don't know

You do you. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[HyoMinPark]

Alright, enough.

There’s a way to give constructive criticism, and then there is pointless banter being made in an attempt to prove one person/one side is “right” or one person/one side is “bad” when it comes to this argument, like what is going on here.

Let it go.



Back on topic, I am still of the mindset that everyone in a party—healers included—should contribute to DPS. Healers should always strive to find a balance between healing, DPSing, and MP management, something that will only come with practice, practice, and more practice. I do not agree with the mindset a lot of anti-healer DPS healers have of them being protected from scrutiny or dismissal because they have a green icon. I don’t see how one can actively choose (and actively be okay with) only using 50% of their toolkit 20% of the time in this game’s 4-man content, because there are very few instances where a healer would be constantly spamming healing spells in an attempt to keep a tank or the party alive. Obviously, if the tank is about as thick as a sheet of rice parchment, or the DPS are being kind enough to eat unnecessary damage, we don’t expect healers to neglect their healing duties or neglect keeping them up (although, with regards to the DPS eating stuff, I don’t go out of my way to keep them up if they continue to behave foolishly). But relatively speaking, outside of a few pulls in Stormblood leveling dungeons, most pulls in most instances do not require 80% healing uptime, and a Largesse + Regen is more than enough to suffice (or a Roused Eos/Selene).

Healer actively managing MP, healing, and DPSing in such a way that makes an instance flow smoothly = good healer.
Healer ignoring half of their toolkit and doing the bare minimum in an instance = bad healer.
Healer going balls to the wall with DPS and ignoring their healing duties = bad healer.


No one is saying healers should DPS first, heal second (inb4 someone tosses that argument back up again). They say that healers should pull their own weight in all forms of content (not just Savage), because it’s expected of DPS and tanks to do so (don’t say it isn’t). Healers should not get a “free pass”.

DF should not be turned into a “safe space” where one is free from solicited or unsolicited advice or criticism, otherwise the entire Mentor System would now be defunct. Criticism can be constructive if the one giving the criticism makes the effort to phrase it in such a way; Miste gave a good example of ideal phrasing. Another thing one can do is add a little happy emote (^^ or :3) to the end of the advice to make it come off as “softer” if it sounds too forward or too blunt (an issue I have sometimes when I give out advice, hence I always end mine with a or a ^^). Criticism should not be taken as some personal attack by people who receive it. The perception of criticism or advice = harassment is really one that should stop now. And the only way for it to stop is for people to start realizing that not all criticism is bad, nor is it a personal attack against them.

[Deceptus]

SE is never going to come out and say that they think healers shouldn’t DPS/should DPS,

SE is NEVER going to do this because healers have to level somehow. DPS has to be part of their kit. Many old school players who've played EverQuest know the horror of trying to level a cleric. Heck, it was even similar in FFXI.

[Tridus]

SE is NEVER going to do this because healers have to level somehow. DPS has to be part of their kit. Many old school players who've played EverQuest know the horror of trying to level a cleric. Heck, it was even similar in FFXI.

Having DPS buttons to use when solo and having time to use them in groups are different things. SE could say what they expect in groups. Hall of the Novice does say "there's nobody who needs healing, you should help attack the target" after all. Then they give you fights with large gaps with no incoming damage, and it seems unlikely they expect you to eat a sandwich during that.

I mean, back when I played WoW the healers all had damage buttons too. For the most part outside of specialty fights they were barely used in raids (back when I played, don't know how it is today) because they weren't very effective compared to DPS spec on the same class, there was too much steady damage, and you could go OOM too easily if you overextended on DPS. None of those things are true for the most part in XIV. I mean, we use Cure 2 as a primary heal at 70 because MP efficiency matters less than GCD efficiency, and in old school WoW people would bind lower ranked versions of Lesser Heal because it was more efficient than using the max rank version (let alone compared to Greater Heal).

Without all those constraints, there's no mechanical reason to not DPS during idle time.