Sch does not feel like sch...

[CreinCrein]

I'd be happy with just a reduction in miasma II's mp cost, seeing as it's used 20~+ times a fight

[Sebazy]

I am looking forward to it, if it doesn't take to much time for you

The following errors occurred with your submission
The text that you have entered is too long (12888 characters). Please shorten it to 1000 characters long.

Yeah no. (Also ironic /10char)

[Evumeimei]

I've found that SCH isn't as fun to play as it was in Heavensward. This is mostly geared towards 4-man content since that's what I run the most. But I feel like that may just be a healer thing this expansion since now that I'm leveling AST to 70 I've been finding it dreadfully boring in 4-man dungeons. WHM is the only one I really have fun playing in 4-mans.

[Fernosaur]

Everything!

The problem with SCH is that whilst the fairy abilities were strong, they were also unresponsive and erratic in use mostly due to the speed with which the AI chooses an auto embrace target coupled with how sketchy pet queueing can be at times.

IMHO the best way to allow the SCH to be a more pet centric job again, is to actually get rid of the pet from a technical standpoint. Whilst it sounds awful, I think it actually opens up some very interesting possibilities. This is something I should probably explain in a separate post as it won't be brief

I really only truly agree with responsiveness being a problem, but I think that's less a problem in the job's core design and more of a programming issue that they haven't figured out how to solve. I don't even know if this is because of crappy dev roots from 1.0 or not, but I would guess a lot of our QoL issues have some relation to this.

I keep seeing a lot of posts about how SCH's toolkit doesn't make sense with itself and is clunky, but really... there haven't been that many core changes to the kit at all. Dissipation is still trash, yes, but disregarding the watering down of the DoT rotation (which hit all jobs in the game) and the fairyhugs nerf making the fairy's single target healing less reliable, SCH is still playing in almost the same way as it was played in HW for most of its primary functions, and let's not forget SCH was lauded non-stop during HW for having almost perfect job design. I am of the opinion that SCH has the most interesting skills, and is only really "held back" by faulty programming in the game.

I think if we could modify how the pet AI works ourselves, it would perhaps be a bit better. Give pets "gambits" of sorts so that we are more involved in how their functions work. I know this would make the job even harder and more overwhelming to play for new players, but that's always been the case for SCH. These gambits needen't even be required for SCH to work well in casual content: make the baseline for it what fairies' AI is like right now, and allow us to modify that base.

Probably way too complicated for the dev team, tho.

[Riyshn]

The difference in SCH between now and HW is that SCH is a class that was made during the era when Cleric Stance existed as a large part of healer play, and was designed to thrive working in that enviroment. With SB and the removal of Cleric, we've lost that core mechanical strength.

HW was actually already removing some of it, with the Lustrate change from %-based to potency. Then we got to 60 and were rewarded with Dissipation, which if I remember the math right, rewards you with something like 500p extra over it's 30sec duration if you spend that entire time alternating Physick/Adlo, over what you would have gotten just from Embrace in that time instead of the healing boost. And at the cost of the MP and either time or Swift to resummon when it ends.

SB upped the cost of Adlo and Succor (hey look, our first two SCH skills! The ones that any new player is going to associate most strongly with the class.) to the point that they nearly aren't worth it in most situations, on top of Succor already being kind of a crap spell. We also got Quickened Aetherflow, which somehow managed to both be a buff to Dissipation while at the same time making it's problems even worse. Yes, it makes Dissipation make Aetherflow's CD effectively 30sec, but at the same time, it is really hard to effectively use 6 stacks within 30 seconds. Plus Aetherpact/Fey Union, which is actively in contradiction with Dissipation.

TLDR: SCH feels clunky and self contradicting because the game state it was designed for does not exist anymore, as well as feeling like several of it's spells were designed by entirely different people who didn't bother communicating with either each other or the balance team.

[Sinquleur]

I'm glad to see these SCH threads on here. I've only started playing a little over a month ago and I feel it does need a bit of re-tuning to bring it in line with the other healers. I love the class right now and I still find success with it but it seems to be just a step down from the others. The amount of effort it requires to do the job it was meant to seems a bit unbalanced.

I think someone told me the only difference between Adlo and Succor and AST's Aspected Benefic/Helios is that we can proc crits. I understand and there's a lot of potential there IF you crit, especially when one of the most satisfying things on a SCH is spreading a crit Adlo with Deployment Tactics. This to me however seems to force me into relying on our gear since we have nothing in our skillset that improves our crit temporarily.

It's kind of sad that I'd have to rely on gear to be able to do something my job was already intended for better than an AST.

[Riyshn]

I think someone told me the only difference between Adlo and Succor and AST's Aspected Benefic/Helios is that we can proc crits. I understand and there's a lot of potential there IF you crit, especially when one of the most satisfying things on a SCH is spreading a crit Adlo with Deployment Tactics. This to me however seems to force me into relying on our gear since we have nothing in our skillset that improves our crit temporarily.

The following potency numbers assume a crit modifier of x1.4.

SCH:
Adlo: 300/300
Crit Adlo: 420/840
Succor: 150/150
Crit Succor: 210/210

4.1 Succor: 150/225
4.1 Crit Succor: 210/315
(Based on what we know about 4.1 changes)

Noct. AST:
Asp.Bene: 230/575
Crit Asp.Bene: 322/805
Asp.Helios: 172.5/258.75
Crit Asp.Helios: 241.5/362.25

Please remember also that Asp.Benefic is instantcast, while Adlo is a 2sec cast time, and that Deploy is on a 2min CD, while Asp.Helios is on the GCD.

[Rawrz]

I'd be happy with just a reduction in miasma II's mp cost, seeing as it's used 20~+ times a fight

I would really appreciate it if a couple things happen:

Miasma II
1. Miasma II's MP cost is reduced. The MP cost should be about 150% cost of broil. 175% tops. Blizzard II was 133% the cost of Broil for reference. THIS IS MOSTLY WHAT I WANT CHANGED.
2. Miasma II is based on location of target, not around SCH (like Gravity.) [This seamlessly replaces the function of both Blizzard II and Aero for aoe and single target DPS. Its SCH's Version of Aero 3. WHM would spam Aero 3 if they didn't have god Tier Holy to spam.]




Controlling Fairies more through Steady/Guard.
As for pets, honestly I feel they should either figure out how to make pets more responsive on their side OR enhance the pet stances we have now.

Steady/Guard do nothing for Eos/Selene except switch their stance and break their current cast, of which she will immediately retry if its embrace. They don't affect skill usage, other than turning them off sic. Instead, they could make it like this:

Steady: Eos/Selene will not cast embrace or any action until told to do so. (You have to manually embrace each time.)

Guard: Eos/Selene will not cast embrace or any action until told to do so. Once an action has been specified and the fairy attempts to use this action, she will return to "Obey."




Other non realistic things.
Emergency tactics could see an additional affect: MP cost of Adlo is reduced by 25-50%, so that its close in line with Cure II and medica. Why punish an SCH for a spell that can't be critlo deployed?


What I think would really benefit SCH would be (lul duh) Dissipation as a fairy swap, but ive beat that horse dead and so deep I'm almost to the center of the earth. Selene to be more Single target oriented, with eos AOE, reflected by her current skill set and by changing Atherpact/Fey Union into a pulsing AOE heal when she is active. Selene could obtain SCH's old virus as Fey Charm or whatever you want to call it. Originally I thought a MDMG boost would be better for her, but the more raid (Read as EPEEN) damage a healer can bring the more mandatory/unfair the role is *COUGH AST*. Could probably change Fey Wind to something more single target defensive as well.

Add if excog falls off before use, it becomes a 30 second galvanize at 350-400 potency, so you can incorporate using it as a free Non Critlo adlo spread. <3

But as all of this radically changes SCH, none of it would actually happen. : )


Please though SE. At least Nerf Miasma II mp costs. ;-;

[Riyshn]

As for pets, honestly I feel they should either figure out how to make pets more responsive on their side OR enhance the pet stances we have now.

One relatively simple idea I've seen for this is to make Embrace instant cast, then make all the rest of the pet skills abilities instead of spells, so they could be cast in the downtime of the pet GCD.

[CreinCrein]

Maybe make them instantly casted spells, if they were abilities rouse wouldn't touch them; like with le tether. Instant cast embraces would be nice doe, place-cancelling to queue is annoying