When dps dont aoe should they just get kicked from the start?

[Gemina]

I dont see what casual play has to do with anything exactly , even in a trial roullete ur required to do the mechanics are u die. In a casual dungeon , if the tank which I hear all the time sets the ton , then if you dont aoe ur going to cause three other people to wipe because u dont want to do the most basic parts of ur role.

Casual or not its just certain things u do are why are u even playing, would u argue that a monk should have grease lighting up as much as possible, or that a dragoon should use botd. Are that a healer only use cure one because its just a dungeon, or a tank not use any df cool downs just because its a dungeon , no u use that kinda game play when ur playing on ur own not when ur playing with other people.

I am not going to notice or care if a MNK has Greased Lightning up full time. However, I do care that they care about it, and if said MNK pulls a mob or boss to keep it up without communication to the group, they will hear a little something from me about it. I know you're just using this as an example, but generally speaking when I run content as a healer, I am not paying attention the damage DPS players deal. I am paying attention to the damage they take. The only time I ever question the amount of damage they are doing is if phases are being pushed too fast, or too slow, leading to wipes.

Casual does matter because things like optimal CD rotations for tanks and healer DPS are not required to clear it. Of course I want everyone I group with to put in their best effort, and to know the do's and don'ts of the instance. Tanks and healers optimize their play by choosing the best action according to what is going on in the field at the current moment, and if nothing requires special attention, they contribute to DPS as best as they can. DPS optimize by not only pushing their numbers as high as possible, but also making things easier for their healers and tanks by handling the mechanics such as interactions that would otherwise distract the healer and/or tank, paying attention to not steal agro, and generally just not screw up by getting themselves killed.

Casual content is designed in a way that not all of these things need to be present in order to clear it. I get what you're saying, and I agree that just because it is casual doesn't mean it is ok to play poorly. However, what I am saying is that because it IS casual, you have to expect that you're going to get a player here and there who is just going to do what they do without consideration to others. In these cases it is just best to get in and out of there. Raising issues only adds even more time to the run, and if it's something trivial like a DPS who does not AoE, a healer who does not DPS and so forth, then it is actually a disservice to not only yourself, but the other members of the group who do care.

[Rokke]

No.

I am saying that the difference should be closer between the two not the same damage. Just enough so that this argument about zone pulling, AoE dps only, healer DPS maybe comes to a close. If you can hit more enemies for more damage at once the resource cost should be higher than it currently is. Maybe open with a high damage AoE or two then due to high cost you need to switch over to single target to apply finishers.

Tanks and healers will always find ways to push themselves, which is a whole 'nother can of worms.


AoE abilities do cost more than single target attacks, which is one of the big reasons why A. you don't use them on single targets & B. every class now has a tp or mp refresher skill. Even while you're AoEing you do still weave sine other skills between the AoEs (ie. a BRD Misery's end would be the "finisher" to an almost dead enemy, iron jaws should be used to keep your dots up so you can keep fishing for free procs, straight shot should be reapplied, etc).

Its not that AoE is inherently OP, its situational.
Generally: You should AoE when the tank pulls big. You don't need to when they do not. The +3/-3 is an easy guideline to follow. Deeps accordingly.

[Sandpark]

@Hyominpark
Yes I agree about subjectivity.

I would be surprised if no threads popped up. However the forums are not the majority of the playerbase. I'll give you that maybe 1-10 thread pop up.

You are great player who knows their math as well. I am not questioning your player ability. I wasn't even arguing if you were wrong.

As for not finding fun in running dungeons over and over. I do at times and sometimes I don't. But hey, that's what more difficult versions exist for. I am saying why is MSQ or normal dungeon party only, which is supposed to be a relaxing experience. If party only wasn't a thing, then you wouldn't have to kick anyone be able to play how you want without getting upset with other players who don't live up to your standards.

Sometimes I even enjoy when I see someone being a goofball or messing up every now and then. Now if we couldn't get the clear or wiped over and over, it wouldn't be so funny sometimes.

[Rongway]

My whole point is why am I forced to respect people's time

I stopped reading right here, because that's a big problem right there.

[Sandpark]

I stopped reading right here, because that's a big problem right there.

You took me out of context. I was talking about why normal dungeons are party only to begin with besides a design choice.

[Awful]

I kicked a SMN today from a leveling roulette in Qarn because they would just spam Ruin Ruin Ruin over and over despite me pleading with them to use Bane. Any kind of DPS should use their AoE idk why they don't, even the tank was doing big pulls and expected a Bane best part is they didn't talk or anything.

Don't wanna be a team player or do anything? Here's the ol boot don't let it smack ya on the way out!

[Hookla]

Man now I feel like a shitty player for not paying attention to when dps does AOE or not. I have to say no one needs to get kicked initially for not using a mechanic or not. healers who dps don't need to be kicked, tanks who don't use CDs don't need to be kicked, dps who don't AOE shouldn't be kicked automatically. Just let them know if they're screwing up, then if they want to be a snide jerk or just not listen like they're a bot, you can kick them.

[AngelCheese77]

As a person who is maining a Bard, I never ever open with an AoE. I count to 5 to make sure the tank has the aggro. It's more annoying when the DPS blows it all on AoEs before the tank even gets aggro!

I had a group remind me about my cone move, which in honesty I forgot about, as used it, though it hella drains the TP, heh. So pacing is a good idea as well.

Of course, I've also had tanks take big groups without making sure the healer can handle them and wipe because the tank went down in 2 seconds .. and blame the healer. /shrugs.

In the end, help each other. There will be bad apples, so it's your group's choice to keep or kick.

[Zfz]

No. Please stop the "my way is the only way and any other way is the stupid ass retarded lazy loser way" nonsense. The world does not revolve around you. Stop trying to shape the DF. It doesn't work.

It's been said over and over, and I'm going to say it again: if you want group content to go a specific way, use the Party Finder.

[HyoMinPark]

No. Please stop the "my way is the only way and any other way is the stupid ass retarded lazy loser way" nonsense. The world does not revolve around you. Stop trying to shape the DF. It doesn't work.

It's been said over and over, and I'm going to say it again: if you want group content to go a specific way, use the Party Finder.

Pointing out that this also applies if you just want to be lazy for the sake of being lazy. Make a PF and find like-minded individuals that also enjoy/don't care about being lazy. Using Party Finder goes both ways.

I don't see why it's such a bad thing to expect people to put in adequate team effort when it comes to clearing content. Even if it's "Just DF." Any party member being lazy is not putting in team effort, and if the team doesn't want them in the party, they are justified to kick and replace if majority rules.