Kick Abuse

[Mavrias]

Single target in an AOE pull is ridiculously inefficient. Things die slowly and that could potentially lead to a wipe when the tank and healer run out of cooldowns. Direct hit and Crit transfer over to aoe damage as well plus mana is no more difficult to manage in AOE than in single target so the explanation you gave was unsatisfactory. If you continued to single target after we've asked you to AOE in large packs and you refuse I'd kick you too. Especially if you whined about the tank losing hate to you on the mob you were single targeting in an aoe pack.

Their only real mistake was selecting afk rather than harassment tbh.
So

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Yes I don't like healers who don't dps (as I mained healer in heavensward) but I don't yell at them. I sigh to myself and get on. Cause in life you can't dictate everyone to bow to your whim. If you don't like the party you receive in random duty they you can leave and bite the penalty.

I mean on the last mob I lbed which is a aoe if i want to be sassy but eh What I think Is needed is a defiant word from the dev on where the line is. Cause it seems the Gms don't seem to be consistent either.

Neither do I. In fact, I generally deal with them the same way you did. Although, I do find it odd you seem to have no qualms DPSing on healers yet won't DPS on Red Mage? That... is rather hypocritical.

[Elamys]

If you weren't AOEing a large trash pack, then you were being inefficient. RDM AOE is more potent than single target melee + Verholy/Verflare nuke when dealing with large packs. Enchanted Moulinet is a DPS gain at 3+ mobs, as is Scatter spam (however boring it may be). If you were failing to AOE to the other two's standards, then yes, they can kick you for that. GMs have stated multiple times that "differences of playstyle" is a valid reason for a vote dismiss. I personally think they should add that as a vote dismiss option, since it doesn't particularly fit under any of the four currently available (AFK, Offline, Harassment, Cheating), but it is a valid reason for a kick.

While it may be allowed now, I really, really hope they don't allow something like that (not DPSing in the exact way someone wants, IE, not holding the group back in any appreciable way) to become a validated reason to kick. In my opinion that just breeds elitism. People really shouldn't go into DF with randoms and expect top tier playing. At the end of the day, it was just shitty of them to kick someone for that reason. It really sucks for DPS because after being kicked for such a stupid reason they're probably looking at a 30+ minute queue to get back in.

Neither do I. In fact, I generally deal with them the same way you did. Although, I do find it odd you seem to have no qualms DPSing on healers yet won't DPS on Red Mage? That... is rather hypocritical.

Oh, come on. They didn't say they weren't DPSing at all. They weren't AoEing, that's really different. Depending on how many mobs were there we don't know HOW much of a difference it would have made to AoE.

[Casualty]

People really shouldn't go into DF with randoms and expect top tier playing.

Agreed. However, knowing how to use (especially in RDM's case) a fairly easy AOE rotation is hardly "top tier playing". It's pretty fundamental. I might put up with as long as it wasn't too much of a hindrance, but I can see why someone else would not.

It also sounds like this player caught the other players' attention after they harped on the tank for holding single target aggro while EVERYONE else was doing aoe. So not only were they wrong, they wanted everyone everyone else to change what they were doing because they couldn't or wouldn't use aoe. That's pretty silly and probably more of the real reason why the kick happened.

In a run you can be salty, and you can be bad, but you are much more likely to get kicked if you are both.

[Mavrias]

People really shouldn't go into DF with randoms and expect top tier playing.

I think you're mistaking the fundamentals with "top tier playing."

[Okamimaru]

Fundamentals mean jack in this game anymore with the level jump potions and potd speed leveling... with the ability to skip levels and story you now can have totally clueless party members in all levels of the game... since this addition "playstyle differences" is just a bullshit excuse... especially with dps queues being stupid long at times

[Mavrias]

Fundamentals mean jack in this game anymore with the level jump potions and potd speed leveling... with the ability to skip levels and story you now can have totally clueless party members in all levels of the game... since this addition "playstyle differences" is just a bullshit excuse... especially with dps queues being stupid long at times

Listen to advice and play properly and the likelyhood of you being kicked for "playstyle difference" goes way down. And if you don't like dps queues, queue with a tank or healer friend or don't play dps. You shouldn't be exempt from being kicked just cause your queue is long.

[Casualty]

Fundamentals mean jack in this game anymore with the level jump potions and potd speed leveling... with the ability to skip levels and story you now can have totally clueless party members in all levels of the game... since this addition "playstyle differences" is just a bullshit excuse... especially with dps queues being stupid long at times

I'm not sure you intended to sound this way, but what it sounds like you are saying is basically because people have access to level jump potions and speed leveling through Palace of the Dead that somehow exempts them from needing to know even the building blocks of their class when entering duty finder and that reason is because DPS queues are "stupid long".

Is that really what you wanted to say or am I misunderstanding?

[Draxis_Fallspear]

The real problemthat needs addressing is premades of as little as 2 people having 100% control over booting anyone they choose to.

I think they need an ammended ruleset where the neutral party becomes the deciding vote. This becomes a problem when it's a 3 person premade. But in that case, I'd say that that premade should just have to deal with the outlier or leave with no penalty.

[BillyKaplan]

The thing is, difference in playstyle is kind of a two-edged sword, not to mention a bureaucratic mess, because there isn't actually a reason like that listed in the kick menu. Unless you can prove they're intentionally trolling, you don't have a case for 'harassment' - and if they're not trolling, you're setting yourself up for a counter-report and a justified one. Offline and AFK are both erroneous reasons as well, which leaves botting, which is actually the easiest to disprove because all it takes is minimal chitchat between party members to prove this is an actual person who's paying attention to what's going on. And in the absence of that, it's still hard to prove, so no case for the kick.

Basically, while the GMs disagree kicking for difference in playstyle is wrong, the game doesn't really enable you to do so, which makes this debate kind of moot - no matter the reason listed on the kick, it wasn't why they kicked you for, which makes the kick in itself a reportable offense.