Kick Abuse

[MicahZerrshia]

In my opinion that just breeds elitism.

The real "elitists" are not the people who expect you to know basic rotations that take less work than single target rotations to speed it up a bit, they are the people who want to make excuses for poor play and even poorer sportsmanship due to some "my sub" nonsense.

In the case of rdm aoe it takes less work than a single target rotation and making excuses for this is more elitist than expecting people to know the basic fundamentals.

The real toxicity rarely comes from the high end players who, lets be honest, tend to group together. It comes from the players who don't make any effort and don't care to demanding everyone else just deal with it because "its just a game" or the previously mentioned "my sub" yada yada.

I have played this game since beta v1 and have only been booted due to DC, likely because I always say hello/goodbye, try to help with tips when necessary and put at least a modicum of effort into even the most boring and faceroll content because I understand that being an mmo this game is more than just me me me me me me me. I also take constructive advice seriously and use it to improve my gameplay, not cry about being bullied for being asked to do the basics of my job.

Seriously, if you took the time you spend complaining on the forums or reddit and apply it to learning the game or trying at A B or C content, you wouldn't have these issues.

[HyoMinPark]

While it may be allowed now, I really, really hope they don't allow something like that (not DPSing in the exact way someone wants, IE, not holding the group back in any appreciable way) to become a validated reason to kick. In my opinion that just breeds elitism. People really shouldn't go into DF with randoms and expect top tier playing. At the end of the day, it was just shitty of them to kick someone for that reason. It really sucks for DPS because after being kicked for such a stupid reason they're probably looking at a 30+ minute queue to get back in.

Expecting players to use AOE skills during large pulls is hardly being elitist or expecting "top tier play." Please. Since this was an Expert Roulette, standard pulls in those three dungeons are usually 5+ mobs, which means DPS should be using their AOE skills. You'd be surprised at how slow duties can go when your DPS choose to single target packs of 5+ mobs.

[Elamys]

Expecting players to use AOE skills during large pulls is hardly being elitist or expecting "top tier play." Please. Since this was an Expert Roulette, standard pulls in those three dungeons are usually 5+ mobs, which means DPS should be using their AOE skills. You'd be surprised at how slow duties can go when your DPS choose to single target packs of 5+ mobs.

I answered this already. I'm saying people shouldn't immediately kick people who aren't playing well.

The real toxicity rarely comes from the high end players who, lets be honest, tend to group together. It comes from the players who don't make any effort and don't care to demanding everyone else just deal with it because "its just a game" or the previously mentioned "my sub" yada yada.

Yes, "but my sub" is a stupid argument. See above. You have to be playing exceptionally bad, in my opinion, to deserve being kicked. I don't mean let's not kick the BLM that's casting only Blizzard 1 and ignoring any advice people give him. At that point, I'd say that's deserved. This entire situation in this particular thread is pure hearsay, I think it was incredibly shitty of their friend to hold the run hostage, but if the OP was making an honest attempt at DPSing without knowing how much that was hurting the group, then being kicked wasn't deserved. If you consider that toxic or elitist, I'm really unsure of what to tell you.

And before we try to make this personal, I've been kicked a grand total of one time in the two years I've been playing; coincidentally, the situation at hand involved a bard getting mad that I gave this dragoon who wasn't doing very good DPS (apparently) Balance instead of them. I just try to approach the game with a good attitude. I read all these stories on the forums, and yet, people in my groups are almost never kicked; I hardly ever seen kicks even get initiated. My experience in DF has been by and large smooth and not too stressful, and DF is the only "content" I do, so how people are constantly running into these horror shows is beyond me.

[Okamimaru]

Fundamentals mean jack in this game anymore with the level jump potions and potd speed leveling... with the ability to skip levels and story you now can have totally clueless party members in all levels of the game... since this addition "playstyle differences" is just a bullshit excuse... especially with dps queues being stupid long at times

[Mavrias]

Fundamentals mean jack in this game anymore with the level jump potions and potd speed leveling... with the ability to skip levels and story you now can have totally clueless party members in all levels of the game... since this addition "playstyle differences" is just a bullshit excuse... especially with dps queues being stupid long at times

Listen to advice and play properly and the likelyhood of you being kicked for "playstyle difference" goes way down. And if you don't like dps queues, queue with a tank or healer friend or don't play dps. You shouldn't be exempt from being kicked just cause your queue is long.

[Casualty]

Fundamentals mean jack in this game anymore with the level jump potions and potd speed leveling... with the ability to skip levels and story you now can have totally clueless party members in all levels of the game... since this addition "playstyle differences" is just a bullshit excuse... especially with dps queues being stupid long at times

I'm not sure you intended to sound this way, but what it sounds like you are saying is basically because people have access to level jump potions and speed leveling through Palace of the Dead that somehow exempts them from needing to know even the building blocks of their class when entering duty finder and that reason is because DPS queues are "stupid long".

Is that really what you wanted to say or am I misunderstanding?

[Draxis_Fallspear]

The real problemthat needs addressing is premades of as little as 2 people having 100% control over booting anyone they choose to.

I think they need an ammended ruleset where the neutral party becomes the deciding vote. This becomes a problem when it's a 3 person premade. But in that case, I'd say that that premade should just have to deal with the outlier or leave with no penalty.

[BillyKaplan]

The thing is, difference in playstyle is kind of a two-edged sword, not to mention a bureaucratic mess, because there isn't actually a reason like that listed in the kick menu. Unless you can prove they're intentionally trolling, you don't have a case for 'harassment' - and if they're not trolling, you're setting yourself up for a counter-report and a justified one. Offline and AFK are both erroneous reasons as well, which leaves botting, which is actually the easiest to disprove because all it takes is minimal chitchat between party members to prove this is an actual person who's paying attention to what's going on. And in the absence of that, it's still hard to prove, so no case for the kick.

Basically, while the GMs disagree kicking for difference in playstyle is wrong, the game doesn't really enable you to do so, which makes this debate kind of moot - no matter the reason listed on the kick, it wasn't why they kicked you for, which makes the kick in itself a reportable offense.

[Whiterock]

Scatter is 100 potency. At 3 mobs, it will do more damage than jolt/impact/verstone+fire (3x100 = 300 potency). You can weave in veraero+thunder here since it deals 300 potency too, and gives 5 more mana instead of just spamming scatter. However at 4 mobs, a single scatter does 400 potency. At 6 mobs, you're blasting 600 potency for every single cast. I'm sure you can understand that using single target spells on big pulls is not only terrible use of your spell kit, but a huge drag on the group as well... It is almost as bad as seeing melee dps with full TP on big pulls, something that deserves an equally harsh treatment. Why settle for bad play in a group situation? You're playing with completely unknown strangers, surely you want them to remember you as a valuable and competent player. And not some mouth breather that made them roll their eyes.

[Okamimaru]

I'm not sure you intended to sound this way, but what it sounds like you are saying is basically because people have access to level jump potions and speed leveling through Palace of the Dead that somehow exempts them from needing to know even the building blocks of their class when entering duty finder and that reason is because DPS queues are "stupid long".

Is that really what you wanted to say or am I misunderstanding?

What I'm saying is the dev are making it so that people can just max level without a clue as to how to properly play and using the non existing (in game) playstyle difference excuse to kick people is a very bad idea... it's SEs fault for making leveling without understanding easy then allowing people to kick others for not playing the same way...