Kick Abuse

[Elamys]

If you weren't AOEing a large trash pack, then you were being inefficient. RDM AOE is more potent than single target melee + Verholy/Verflare nuke when dealing with large packs. Enchanted Moulinet is a DPS gain at 3+ mobs, as is Scatter spam (however boring it may be). If you were failing to AOE to the other two's standards, then yes, they can kick you for that. GMs have stated multiple times that "differences of playstyle" is a valid reason for a vote dismiss. I personally think they should add that as a vote dismiss option, since it doesn't particularly fit under any of the four currently available (AFK, Offline, Harassment, Cheating), but it is a valid reason for a kick.

While it may be allowed now, I really, really hope they don't allow something like that (not DPSing in the exact way someone wants, IE, not holding the group back in any appreciable way) to become a validated reason to kick. In my opinion that just breeds elitism. People really shouldn't go into DF with randoms and expect top tier playing. At the end of the day, it was just shitty of them to kick someone for that reason. It really sucks for DPS because after being kicked for such a stupid reason they're probably looking at a 30+ minute queue to get back in.

Neither do I. In fact, I generally deal with them the same way you did. Although, I do find it odd you seem to have no qualms DPSing on healers yet won't DPS on Red Mage? That... is rather hypocritical.

Oh, come on. They didn't say they weren't DPSing at all. They weren't AoEing, that's really different. Depending on how many mobs were there we don't know HOW much of a difference it would have made to AoE.

[Casualty]

People really shouldn't go into DF with randoms and expect top tier playing.

Agreed. However, knowing how to use (especially in RDM's case) a fairly easy AOE rotation is hardly "top tier playing". It's pretty fundamental. I might put up with as long as it wasn't too much of a hindrance, but I can see why someone else would not.

It also sounds like this player caught the other players' attention after they harped on the tank for holding single target aggro while EVERYONE else was doing aoe. So not only were they wrong, they wanted everyone everyone else to change what they were doing because they couldn't or wouldn't use aoe. That's pretty silly and probably more of the real reason why the kick happened.

In a run you can be salty, and you can be bad, but you are much more likely to get kicked if you are both.

[Mavrias]

People really shouldn't go into DF with randoms and expect top tier playing.

I think you're mistaking the fundamentals with "top tier playing."

[Elamys]

I think you're mistaking the fundamentals with "top tier playing."

I'm not. What I'm saying is that people who resort to kicking immediately people who don't play as well as they would like are often the people who kick those who are doing just fine and not holding the group back, but aren't playing at a high level. It's an absolutely cancerous way of behaving.

Does a person not AoEing on a trash pull make things take a bit longer? Sure. But HOW MUCH longer? How many mobs were there? Regardless of what people think, AoEing on a pack of 3 mobs does not make it take much less time than single targeting them down (and for some classes and comps, it's actually faster to single target at that point than to AoE).

You're playing with completely unknown strangers, surely you want them to remember you as a valuable and competent player. And not some mouth breather that made them roll their eyes.

If you spend that much time thinking about the opinions of people in DF, then chances are you need to step back a little bit. Trust me, other than a few exceptionally standout situations, people aren't going to remember every person that they played with that they didn't think played well. That's like 85% of the people that play this game anyways.

[Whiterock]

Bad play stands out, and bad players are experts at just turning a blind eye and keep the group going like the mindless automatons they are. It might be your sub, but you're dragging down 3 other people that pay just as much as you do. The slow car hogging the left lane on the highway is just as annoying as the person that plays badly in an already very easy and accessible mmo, that even went to great lengths to further lowering the skill floor in SB.

[Elamys]

Bad play stands out, and bad players are experts at just turning a blind eye and keep the group going like the mindless automatons they are. It might be your sub, but you're dragging down 3 other people that pay just as much as you do. The slow car hogging the left lane on the highway is just as annoying as the person that plays badly in an already very easy and accessible mmo, that even went to great lengths to further lowering the skill floor in SB.

You know this is a video game right?

[Whiterock]

You know this is a video game right?

I sure do. Did you know that this is a team oriented game? Those 3 or 7 other people's time are just as valuable as your own, and if your playstyle directly affects their enjoyment of said content then they are in every right to remove you.

[Elamys]

I sure do. Did you know that this is a team oriented game? Those 3 or 7 other people's time are just as valuable as your own, and if your playstyle directly affects their enjoyment of said content then they are in every right to remove you.

I just wanted to make sure, because droning on about how people are mindless automatons when they're completing content at a perfectly acceptable rate sure does make it seem like perhaps you need to consider running with a premade.

[Mavrias]

I'm not. What I'm saying is that people who resort to kicking immediately people who don't play as well as they would like are often the people who kick those who are doing just fine and not holding the group back, but aren't playing at a high level. It's an absolutely cancerous way of behaving.

Does a person not AoEing on a trash pull make things take a bit longer? Sure. But HOW MUCH longer? How many mobs were there? Regardless of what people think, AoEing on a pack of 3 mobs does not make it take much less time than single targeting them down (and for some classes and comps, it's actually faster to single target at that point than to AoE).

OP themselves even stated that this was an expert dungeon and the tank had pulled "30 mobs." If you're not aoeing that pack regardless of what job you are, then you are holding the group back likely to the point of wiping the group. Tank and Healer cooldowns are not infinite, your "3 mob" analogy does not apply.

Kicking someone for not knowing their job at level cap is not cancerous. No one is asking for O4S dps in an expert roulette, we're asking for basic effort and fundamental knowledge.

[MicahZerrshia]

In my opinion that just breeds elitism.

The real "elitists" are not the people who expect you to know basic rotations that take less work than single target rotations to speed it up a bit, they are the people who want to make excuses for poor play and even poorer sportsmanship due to some "my sub" nonsense.

In the case of rdm aoe it takes less work than a single target rotation and making excuses for this is more elitist than expecting people to know the basic fundamentals.

The real toxicity rarely comes from the high end players who, lets be honest, tend to group together. It comes from the players who don't make any effort and don't care to demanding everyone else just deal with it because "its just a game" or the previously mentioned "my sub" yada yada.

I have played this game since beta v1 and have only been booted due to DC, likely because I always say hello/goodbye, try to help with tips when necessary and put at least a modicum of effort into even the most boring and faceroll content because I understand that being an mmo this game is more than just me me me me me me me. I also take constructive advice seriously and use it to improve my gameplay, not cry about being bullied for being asked to do the basics of my job.

Seriously, if you took the time you spend complaining on the forums or reddit and apply it to learning the game or trying at A B or C content, you wouldn't have these issues.