Tanks and super pulls

[Okamimaru]

Not really ive seen a ninja and a dragoon party do better than a caster and ranged one of the biggest isseus is that tanks dont use their aoe on a pull if you have tank and both dps using aoe any pull is possible

I was talking about melee and caster together in a party... BLM can't give SAM tp back and SAM can't give mp back... with the cost of aoes and the damage fall off even with invigorate a mass pull often leaves me with no tp (even worse when the tank then rushes into a boss fight after a huge pull)

[bswpayton]

I was talking about melee and caster together in a party... BLM can't give SAM tp back and SAM can't give mp back... with the cost of aoes and the damage fall off even with invigorate a mass pull often leaves me with no tp (even worse when the tank then rushes into a boss fight after a huge pull)

mediate on sam gives back tp as well, and blm has unlimited mp so why would they need an mp refresh? blizzard three, blizzard four will have a blm right back at max mp, also with same two combos gives you an aoe as well. So sams dont have to use their aoe combo all the time plus you have another aoe base on your gauge as well. Rdm has like zero mp issues, bard has an mp song and tp song, monk has two tp refreshers, mch has an mp and tp song as well as invegrate. Every tank and healer have aoe spells, I just dont see the issue here its a none issue every job has plenty of tools to do large pulls with no issue no matter the job.

[Frizze]

I was talking about melee and caster together in a party... BLM can't give SAM tp back and SAM can't give mp back... with the cost of aoes and the damage fall off even with invigorate a mass pull often leaves me with no tp (even worse when the tank then rushes into a boss fight after a huge pull)

Yeah, i think you meant to say SMN, not BLM. Ive got infinite mana as long as i understand my stances(ice gives insane mana regen, fire gives a big damage boost - go back and forth as needed). Also, Fire 2 and Thunder 2/4(not to mention freeze and blizzard 2 that dont get as much love) dont have damage fall off. I think they have a maximum number of targets(ive not tested this, but i think its 12?), but each target takes the same potency spell hit +/- whatever crits i land. Now Flare and Foul do have damage scaling, so it isnt something that doesnt exist, it just isnt on most of our spells(and it stops at 5 mobs, so targets 6-? all take some base amount). So with that said, i support big pulls. If the tank and healer can handle em, i can burn em down.

[Besame]

Ask the healer if they are ok with multiple pulls, evaluate your team's dps after 1 or 2 and adjust from there if needed. It's not rocket science.

[Nikolas]

Or when as a pally I pull two mobs and burn through all my cooldowns, even hallowed ground, and I am still left to die by the healer. This is why I hate pulling more than one mob at a time. I never complain about healing in game, but it really burns me up when stuff like that happens.

[Xenos88]

I tank a lot and I mostly pull no more than two mobs but if I do die then I go back to pulling normally. I'm not gonna curse out the healer because I decided to do it.

[Terkhev]

It depends on tank imo. I usually don't like healing huge pulls, but when I go with my brother I just tell him to pull as much as possible.
On the other hand it can get annoying when a tank pulls everything one by one and never leaves tanking stance despite my regen already overhealing. 30+ minutes of throwing stones at enemies isn't really that much better than cure II spam heal whole fight.

[Acidblood]

...On the other hand it can get annoying when a tank pulls everything one by one and never leaves tanking stance despite my regen already overhealing. 30+ minutes of throwing stones at enemies isn't really that much better than cure II spam heal whole fight.

If the run is taking 30+ minutes with single pulls, and the tank holding aggro, then the blame is squarely on the DPS, not the tank. Which is not to say that appropriate double (or triple) pulls shouldn't be done (as they generally do make the run significantly faster), but a smooth and steady run is always going to be better than the chaos and wipes that some tanks constantly seem to cause in the name of haste.

My general rule, and as others have suggested, is to use the first 1 or 2 pulls as a yard stick... if they are fast and easy then go big, but if they are slow* and / or difficult (or worse :/) then steady single (or double, if you know they are easy) pulls are the best way forward.

* The reason I mention slow is that double/triple pulls become significantly harder the longer they last, so if the DPS aren't up for it, then big pulls are going to achieve little more than to strain the groups resources (cooldowns, TP and MP).

[Mirhd]

Forewarning : frustration follows.

Been healing/tanking in MMOs on and off for 15+ years (had someone say MMOs haven't been around that long... According to them, the first one launched in 2004. /facepalm), so I've seen a lot of nonsense. Started this one in June of this year after being burnt out on WoW again, and have been enjoying it so far. That said...

If there's one thing that will always be a constant, it's impatient players. I don't have a problem with people that aren't familiar with how MMOs work, as we were all new at some point, and I don't even mind wiping once or twice if people are genuinely trying and open to taking suggestions, and everyone is polite about it. I'm pretty patient overall, and I RARELY abandon dungeons... but today I got out of only the second one I've jumped ship on since starting FFXIV, and it was with one of these "hero" tanks that insisted on pulling more than he could handle. You probably know the story - CDs used and not up yet, tank pulls way too much, wipe. I (politely) point out that this doesn't make it faster. Tank says it does if "heals and dps are good", get told I'm salty, blah blah.

It's called the placebo effect, and in this case, it's the illusion of speed. What they don't seem to notice, is how quickly tank/party health drops, and how slowly enemy health drops, even with "dem leet RM/NIN deeps". Once CDs are gone, mana goes with it, and a lot of the time the brilliant tank is rushing off again, and you don't have much to work with. It's MUCH faster to get your dots up, then burn down smaller packs, instead of "lul spam aoe" that barely does anything save slowly bleed the enemy; meanwhile the tank is taking more and more damage and doesn't even have any CDs themselves... If they even bothered to use any...

The tank insisted the run could be done this way in 20 minutes. Funny... I've had 20 minute runs (and less) when tanks DIDN'T go all LEEEROOOY (WoW ref, sue me), so it's really a difference of, what, 2-3 minutes? IF that? Much less, typically. Could I have stuck it out and healed through all the nonsense? Sure, done it before. Should I have to? Nope. No, this isn't me being "entitled", it's me not putting up with this/re-enforcing/validating the "my way or the highway, heal bitch" + "pull EVERYTHING" mentalities.

All of this within the first 3 minutes, and while you're (apparently? opinion, seems to swing back and forth quicker than an unfaithful spouse) expected to do your own "leet deeps", because we have to pick up the DPSs' slack? I DPS when there's nothing to do (read: no one dying) and I have the mana to do so, while keeping mana in reserve in case spit hits the fan. Encounters are NOT tuned with healer "DPS" in mind, whatever those of you who insist otherwise think, and you can misquote all you like. Healer DPS is there for ease of soloing, period, since doing so otherwise would be impossible. My DPS will always be piss-poor compared to an actual dps class, as it should be- balance is a thing, sweeties. DO try to remember that when you're complaining about nerfs/buffs to this or that.

TL,DR : Hurp derp "super" tanks, herp derp DPS. I enjoy healing, which is why I continue to do it, but you lot make it tiresome.
Excuse any grammatical spelling errors, already spent enough time on this issue.

[Aniond]

I always ask the healer. I enjoy the game either way. If they want big pulls, then so be it. Im in no hurry. The moral of this is. Just be courteous